India Willoughby identifying as a cis woman

[Nousernameforme]

And the Tra's are not liking it. Surely if you say you are a cis woman then you totally are one #nodebate.
Or is Cis somehow exempt from being able to identify in or out of.

They push cis onto us, then claim that for themselves too?
Right?
I've rejected 'cis' all along but I wanna go Contrary Mary on them now that they want it.

Transwomen like her were always living fully as women without much controversy up until recently.

How's that then?

I think IW believes that if you fully enact femininity and seem to "pass" you're on the way to being an actual woman. Except chromosomes, male body (regardless of surgeries) and in this case nearly half a century of male socialisation too.

So why does how IW self-identifies affect anyone else? What is she taking from other women in calling herself a cis woman?

I think she's a total PITA, but it's worth articulating exactly what is the problem here. It's not just that she's moving into women's spaces or (a la Drummond) 'enlarging the definition of woman' is it? Or is it? Does she have the ability by herself to change the meaning of the word so it becomes meaningless - or at least in the bewilderness 's words:
8th rule of misogyny: Men are whatever men say they are and women are whatever men say they are.
Or is there more? I suspect there is so please help me here.

IW sems like a neighbour I have, a typical one-upper, if you've been to tenerife she's been to elevenerife etc etc.
IW is just one-upping the other tra's.

What is she taking from other women in calling herself a cis woman?

Or rather “What is she taking from women in calling herself a cis woman?”

I agree that they can take cis they can have transwomen and ciswomen i will be over here being woman.
It just irritates me when its all, live your truth, validate me bollocks until someone goes against the party line, then its stay in your lane bitch.

Being labled cis was one of the first things to peak trans me.

Exactly Lisa 😂😂

She wants to separate herself from the bearded trans women who have made no physical changes.

I suppose it would be too passé for IW to simply use an accurate term which would differentiate from them - transsexual.

IW is taking fuck all from me.

I’m a woman. I have always been a woman. I will not allow anyone to describe me as, or describe myself as a ciswoman.
It would demean me, to (re)define my personhood, with no reference to my personal experience.

For me, IW and other transwomen are very welcome to this term; it’s meaningless to me, as a term of reference for a woman born female, who identifies as a woman (historically known as... a woman).

Saying that trans women are cis women makes as much sense as saying trans women are women.....ie not one tiny bit!

They can say what like, it doesn't make it true.

I agree that they can take cis they can have transwomen and ciswomen i will be over here being woman.
It just irritates me when its all, live your truth, validate me bollocks until someone goes against the party line, then its stay in your lane bitch.

Being labled cis was one of the first things to peak trans me.

I understand all that and can totally relate, which is why I was asking the question. I'm trying to delve behind the emotion I feel to see what's driving it. At the same time, I'm wary of doing post hoc justification. People sometimes liken it to the redefinition of marriage when equal marriage came in, but it doesn't seem to be at all like that. Equal marriage doesn't take anything away from heterosexual marriage, doesn't weaken its rights at all.

But IW's use of the hated term 'cis' feels like colonisation, even more than her insistence that TWAW. I feel threatened with invasion and disempowerment as the AMAB brigade move in, what with their body fascism and penis-worship, the way they are celebrated in some quarters as the epitome of womanhood... As if her insistence that this is what a woman is means that I won't/can't meet someone else's definition, someone more powerful than me. (Never mind not being listened to when it comes to all-women spaces, don't get me started.)

Bollocks. Or at least Lady Bollocks.

I think it's great that India identifies as a cis woman. Good for India.

I'm just a woman.

I’m not cis, so happy for IW to claim it. I’ve seen a few TW claim ‘cis’ now, as those who blend in more (India, Blaire) want to separate themselves from others under the umbrella (JY, DM et al).

I assume the ‘original’ c*s women (lib femmy types who ID that way) are fine to share it so seems fine to me.

Ok so:

Transwoman is a man who wishes he were a woman but hasn't had surgery.

Ciswoman is a man who wants to be a woman, who's had extensive medical treatment and performs femininity to the max.

Woman is an adult human female.

Great idea, India. Let's run with it.

I thought 'cis' meant 'born as a woman'? Is that not the case?

Anyway, this transwoman is welcome to the horrible word. I certainly don't want it.

Oh come on. Of course it's nutso. We can do better than that, though! Else we will end up with at least three categories of 'women': those born female, those born male who like to present with a female stereotype or parody, and those who just DGAF.

IW is attempting to put herself on the side of those TW who do GAF and everyone applauding her is colluding in the erasure of boundaries between them and the adult human females formerly known as women. Does this matter and if so, why? If not, why not? (Yeah, I know, IW is tiresome and should probably be ignored - but she won't be.)

Call yourself what you like love.

So we now have transwomen (male), ciswomen = transwomen who don't want to think of themselves as transwomen (male) and women (female). Fine by me.

The commonest use of cis and trans is in chemistry, where it denotes compounds with all the same parts but in different spatial arrangements.

Make of that what you will.

India has done the same as Yaniv.
Yaniv saying they can menstruate, and even get pregnant....has a direct parallel with what IW is now declaring. That of being a natural biological adult female.

As far as IW grabbing 'cis', I'm very much 'yes, you can have that, & bicker over it endlessly with other people who were born male & always will be. You chaps fight it out amongst yourselves'.

As a woman, I reject cis. If the blokes who fancy themselves as women want it, cool.

Women certainly didn't want it.

These neologisms are hanging on such shoogly pegs, it's no wonder they are constantly slipping.

India, you're welcome to cis. It's nothing to do with me and my chromosomes.