The Five: The Untold Lives of the Women Killed by Jack the Ripper

[EnthusiasmIsDisturbed]

I am reading this book that tells the stories of the women that were brutally murdered.

So little interest has been shown in these women their lives apart from their assumed profession which I have now learnt is unlikely for three of the women. Their lives were horrific, the lives for women especially poor women was so often unbearably difficult.

But what really struck me is that the attitudes that came from this particular period in time are still entrenched in our society. What hit home was women protecting each other and looking out for each other against predatory men and how we are still having to do this.

It’s a fascinating read

Who is the author?

Sorry just noticed it isn’t in the title

Hallie Rubenhold

It sounds really interesting, I have put it on my wishlist.

It's great. Fascinating read.

I've just finished this - it was really fascinating, such a depressing insight into the lives of poor women at that time, and so many connections with the lives of women now. Seconding your recommendation!

How weird I was in The Ten Bells last night and I did think about it supposedly being the last place Mary Jane Kelly was seen, I'm going to find that book now sounds like a good read.

It's weird that they were all deemed prostitutes because they walked out alone at night. Simply put all views towards the 'murderer' has to be retold and not via the patriarchal view of the time that women darn't walk in the dark alone. Although the same views still prevail to this very day.

Also, it would be interesting to read a modern day defence now. As in she was asking for it! Abortion gone wrong perhaps? Sex game gone wrong? Always the woman's fault and the fascination of course, lies with who did it?

Victorians apparently loved scandal, violently shocking and salacious tales

The murder of poor women who may have been sleeping rough isn’t quite headline grabbing. From what I have read so far two of the women probably worked as prostitutes. The needing to make sense of such awful violent crimes even by Victorian standards the women needed to be seen as partly to blame. Had the women been middle class (as the murderer/s) could have broken into any home it would have been a completely different story and told differently but he chose these women also made sense to Victorian attitudes toward the poor - a sense he was cleaning up the streets a mad man trying to fix society

Or they could have been walking out of their home to other parts of London, to escape from an abusive household. Whitechapel at that time was in parts wealthy and also poor in parts, but it was mainly stable working and middle class, hence the police. Often overwhelmingly poor parts of London had no police because they did not want to venture there, mainly around the docks area, both north and south of the river. Whitechapel was not one of these areas.

Don't know if this is still running, but in March the ENO put on The Women of Whitechapel (I read about it here: www.theguardian.com/music/2019/mar/28/jack-the-ripper-the-women-of-whitechapel-opera-interview-bullock-romaniw-bell ). It was on the radio, but I only caught the first half - I really enjoyed hearing it.

Place marking so I don’t forget about it!

Similar brilliant book about the victims of Peter Sutcliffe with TV adaptation. Unfortunately I despite being recent little has changed regarding victim blaming, etc.

We don't know they were poor women sleeping rough, because certainly all of them had a roof over their heads and that even by 21st century standards is not being on the poverty line.

Whether they were gaining money via sexual favours is neither here nor there. This is of course the salacious take via the tabloids and the broadsheets of the time, all loved a bit of titillation, and what better than a dead woman.

I've read this and it is amazing. The author has received a whole load of online abuse from Male 'Ripperologists' saying she is wrong and her argument is flawed.

I've read this and it is amazing. The author has received a whole load of online abuse from Male 'Ripperologists' saying she is wrong and her argument is flawed.

I've read this and it is amazing. The author has received a whole load of online abuse from Male 'Ripperologists' saying she is wrong and her argument is flawed.

I misread your title and originally thought this was about the Yorkshire Ripper’s victims - but the same thing applied - didn’t the police think many of the women were prostitutes? And it affected their treatment by the police and press. Nearly a century later.

And let's not forget, this was the start of the votes and emancipation for women. Also in Parliament, there was a dedicated band of men who abhorred the sexual use of girls (it was at that time 13) and the age was argued to be 16. Most politicians rejected it (all male of course) because it was deemed to be their right as males to have sex with young women.

Thank you EnthusiasmIsDisturbed, I never read Ripperology books but downloaded a sample of this one and it’s so different - rich in historical detail.

I think as there were no signs of a struggle, no screams heard and the women were believed to be laying down the assumption was that they were about to have sex. Though many were sleeping rough in the area. But none of the victims are believed to have had sex or been raped by Jack

Many of the police reports are no longer available but what’s become legend through media and what is still available doesn’t really correspond but that is no different to the the media spin a story now

If you enjoyed this book I can recommend People of the Abyss by Jack London. It's about an American journalist investigating London slums in Victoria. A very harrowing read and sadly a lot of the same attitudes are still entrenched in British society.

It also makes you look at the Salvation Army in a very different way!

*Victorian times

Yes changes had started but these crimes really had an impact on society and changes slowly came about

Of course laws impacting the males need for sex didn’t truly change for years as a man could still force his wife to have sex until 1991 - as long as you know he wasn’t too violent 😡

And yet it is still questioned in 2019 an older girl/woman’s role when she has been raped or sexually assaulted. What was she doing exactly

And that is in a progressive country

Peter Sutcliffe murdered 13 women, that is known of.

It is supposed that the Whitechapel murderer killed 5.

Whitechapel on the poverty map of the time. Note that Whitechapel does not have so many black spaces, which were indicators of poverty. There was more in the west end.

booth.lse.ac.uk/

What I find quite strange about all of this, and I've always found it strange, was the ages of the women who were killed. All but one was in their 40s, three were separated and had children, the last was young and Irish at the age of 25 and she was probably the only one who was living to survive on sex work.