The Five: The Untold Lives of the Women Killed by Jack the Ripper

[EnthusiasmIsDisturbed]

I am reading this book that tells the stories of the women that were brutally murdered.

So little interest has been shown in these women their lives apart from their assumed profession which I have now learnt is unlikely for three of the women. Their lives were horrific, the lives for women especially poor women was so often unbearably difficult.

But what really struck me is that the attitudes that came from this particular period in time are still entrenched in our society. What hit home was women protecting each other and looking out for each other against predatory men and how we are still having to do this.

It’s a fascinating read

I just listened to this on audible. Absolutely fascinating insight into women's lives in Victorian Britain. About time we heard about the women and not the killer.

placemats I think that they had had fairly 'normal' lives (except Mary Kelly and Elizabeth stride) with husbands and kids but for one reason or another they became alcoholics in their later years which led to poverty.

Thanks for this! I'll definitely check it out!

cuteorangeelephant that's interesting about the Jack London book and the Salvation Army. What was his take on it? I've just read Orwell's Down and Out in Paris and London and he also spent time in Salvation Army lodging houses.

Thank you placemats that is really interesting. The area did have a high number of immigrants particularly Jewish immigrants I know that was considered at the time and then that the ripper was Jewish himself

I have read there were other murders and attacks that could have been linked with JTR the months leading up to the 5 women murdered. Only on the second woman to be murdered (Annie Chapman) story

CuteOrangeElephant thank you shall add that to my list to read next now I am very much wanting to read about this time in history. Jack London - interesting name for a historian writing about Victorian London ....

I find Victorian history very interesting as it’s so prevalent in attitudes today. A really interesting book is How to live like a Victoria by Ruth Goodman - a really easy and informative read of the daily routine of every social back ground of a Victorian man/woman it’s really fascinating. I could see how my grandparents lives were still entrenched in the Victorian attitudes and way of life (they were born in 1912 and 1918) and how we still influence us today (good and bad)

TheVandals

But why would all of the women, in their 40s be targeted, as this certainly was a targeted killing.

The term alcoholic certainly wouldn't apply by 21stC standards. The women enjoyed a drink at night. Compared to their male counterparts in the pub, they were teetotal. They didn't exist for their next drink. No way.

Ruth Goodman is a brilliant historian.

I remember a documenary which said that Elizabeth Stride survived the Princess Alice disaster, unlike so many others. Tragically ironic that she was brutally murdered some years later.

The sections about the ‘undeserving poor’ wanting something for nothing is certainly relevant to today!

Mental health would of course have been an issue in the Victorian times. Who wouldn't have been affected by the poverty they witnessed at that time, never mind the restrictions put upon all females and certainly a class of men.

It's all very fascinating to look back upon, but certainly there are strong echoes in this century. And we all like to think we are secure but are we? How would the average 40 year old woman cope today with the sword of damocles hanging over their head?

Oh yes the undeserving poor is still relevant

As is our class obsession

I never thought about the women being older and being in your 40’s was old. Just looked up life expectancy at this time and it was around 50 (though would have though it less for the very poor)

It’s also interesting because I am reading Charlie Connelly’s book about tracing his Irish ancestors. He’s reached one who lived and worked in Whitechapel after emigrating but there’s nothing written down about him, so he’s finding it hard to fill in the gaps.
Because of the publicity around the murders there is more about the lives of these women and contemporary accounts of their personalities, albeit filtered through the eyes of the people who knew them.

I started reading this yesterday having picked it up in a bookshop thinking how great to see real interest in who these women were and where they came from.

Behind every single one of them is a history of issues for women that are still front and centre now. Poverty, male centred laws that disadvantage women based on biology shock horror, not their 'gender' (was shocked to realise when I was born it had not yet been a century since it was illegal for women to divorce on grounds of adultery, but absolutely legal as grounds for men), trauma histories writ large, and after death a whole lot of lazy journalism because these women were only relevant in terms of their interesting and complex male attacker.

Plus ca fucking change.

Very interesting book in many ways.

Been meaning to read this for a while after reading an interview with the author and impressed by the way she wanted to tell the women's stories. Will get it for my holiday next week.

@PierreBezukov basically the SA were not very interested in helping people, more preaching.

In return for their help (bed and board) people would be required to stay for the morning mass, scuppering any chance for paid work. Rinse and repeat.

Work houses were meant to demean people into submission and it wouldn't surprise me if there were attempts to reintroduce them. It was the last refuge and avoided sleeping rough. A person, family had to be in desperate circumstances to avoid them.

I was touched by the possessions the murdered women owned. So moving. Even the judge urged and implored that no judgement be made on the murdered women. Sometimes I do wonder whether some people just lack the basics in humanity, even today.

to enter them, not avoid.

Anyone who posts a theory about the Whitechapel murders gets piled on by other Ripperologists, so it is good to see that this work is being treated with the same level and type of interest as others (not being ignored if given special handling)

If you are interested in this aspect, the book I strongly recommend is The Worst Street in London by Fiona Rule

Also works on the Thames Torso murders (eg the one by MJ Trow) which were going on at the same time but which are now largely forgotten

I’ve always avoided the photos and drawings of the murdered women where possible, as the time elapsed doesn’t really take away the ghoulish element for me. Always thought they deserved better than that. I’m glad to see this author isn’t using them (so far, I haven’t clicked through to all the footnotes). And in the chapters I’ve read the murders aren’t rehashed or discussed much at all, which is refreshing.

I think the last book I attempted to read about the Ripper himself was the Bruce Robinson one. Absolute unreadable tosh, in need of severe editing.