This is why men get away with so much - their behaviour is always excused and dismissed

[AnotherAdultHumanFemale]

A male teacher was recorded as saying that female pupils at his school were 'gagging for it' when he was drunk at the school prom.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-49177014

A panel investigated and concluded:

"(The teacher's) actions were those of crass stupidity, which represented a considerable misjudgement as to what was an appropriate amount to drink, and language to use, at an end of year prom."
However, it said it was "a one-off incident" and decided a prohibition order was "not appropriate".

=In other words, the panel thinks:

'Yes he was an sexist inappropriate pig who is probably a safeguarding risk but so what, what's the big deal?'

I am sick of seeing the terrible behaviour of men be dismissed, downplayed, excused and covered up. I can only imagine that the panel consisted of other men who act like this teacher did all the time so of course they wouldn't condemn him, because to condemn him would be to condemn themselves. And they just want to be able to continue behaving in sick and disgusting ways towards women and girls.

I dont think the standard with most people is that men are restraining themselves most of the time.

I think most people will think his comments were totally out of order, utterly unprofessional and inappropriate.

If and how that translates to a lifetime ban from a profession is a different issue.

If and how that translates to a lifetime ban from a profession is a different issue

His behaviour is appalling. I don't know how the regulation of teachers works- will it appear as blot on his record to be taken into account if there are future issues?

Could they have ordered that he attends compulsory additional training in safeguarding and equality?

I'm trying to imagine what would happen if a male solicitor in my office spoke that way about female trainees or office juniors at an office party. I suppose we would have to consider if the behaviour was sufficient to merit dismissal under employment law, but if it doesn't I'm confident that it would be black mark to hold against that employee for the future. It breaches our code of conduct in the workplace and office parties are still in the workplace so far as conduct reflecting badly on the business.

LassOfFyvie
I believe the warning and disciplinary stays on his record.
Any future issues he would be pulled up and probably lead to being struck off.

In the meantime, he's been sacked. His name will be muck and rightly so. Schools will be very wary of employing him and rightly so.

The question when considering struck off for life is whether the actions in this situation should prevent them ever teaching again. When I come across cases like this I tend to think of it as 'would I consider this person a liability and risk 20 years from now?'

It’s no fucking wonder we have such a massive problem with male on female sexual harassment and rape in schools if even the staff aren’t sanctioned for behaving in disgusting, misogynistic ways.

And what kind of a prick gets steaming at a do for people who aren’t even old enough to drink? And it’s not just the idiotic dad who makes a twat of himself getting plastered at a birthday party, he was fucking working ffs.

This bloke is a fucking moron at best, and a vile misogynistic piece of shit at worst. If I found out he was teaching my DS I’d hit the bloody roof.

When I come across cases like this I tend to think of it as 'would I consider this person a liability and risk 20 years from now?'

Yes. He encouraged the BOY children in his care to regard the GIRL children as sex objects. He's not going to change his tune if he's made it this far through life with that attitude. And whilst you are giving him the chance to reform (which he won't), how many boys will he teach to objectify girls? How many girls will be hurt by boys acting on his suggestions? How many girls do you think are acceptable collatoral damage for him to have a second chance? My threshold for that is ZERO.

Quick reminder that 300 boy on girl rapes take place in schools and are reported to the police each year. It's likely that the real number of boy on girl rapes is at least twenty times that (6000) based on research into under-reporting. As a teacher, he should be protecting the girls, not egging the boys on.

And it's a y11 prom so yes they are children still.

wacademia
My point is that there's a tiered approach to punishment.
His attitude and actions were unprofessional and cannot be excused.

As outsiders we don't have access to the full details. The panel did. That panel included teachers and non teachers. It's not a case of either accept his actions and defend the indefensible or decide he would be struck off for life.

Actually the full hearing is available here for anyone who is interested:
www.gov.uk/government/publications/teacher-misconduct-panel-outcome-mr-lewis-morrison

I'm having a quick flick to see how it tallies with media reports.

I'm not far in but it seems he has already been drunk and aggressive to the venue staff and that's not at the main issue yet.

He was sacked and has a permanent reprimand?

I would consider that a fairly serious repercussion. My question, if I was making the decision to ban him permanently from teaching, is whether it is part of a pattern of behaviour or not. I might also look at it a little differently if he were a fairly young teacher, closer in age to the students.

Goosefoot
Yes. And all the allegations which were proven (all of them) remain on public record and will show up in any employment checks.

Just because he hasn't been struck off doesn't mean that people have said it's ok.

Just came here to see if there was a thread about this - unbelievable!! The TRA need to watch the Gilette advert a few times for a bloody start. I would not want this 'man' teaching my daughter! There are some brilliant qualified teachers out there who are crying out for a teaching position, yet pervy twats like him get to keep his job? What. The. Fuck.

Another thought:

if it's normal in that school to have teachers being drunk at events like this with students, I have a real issue with that. But, I would tend to see that as a leadership failure and would want to apportion some of the blame for the situation at that level. I've see all too man examples of poor leadership resulting in a predictable problem, and the people who ought to be held responsible making sure to tut tut at the whole situation.

It's almost as if the social expectation that chaps don't necessarily need to behave like adults is carried over into the consultation room...Or as if they construe it that way or frankly misreport it in a manner that suits them.

This plays out in ways big and small. I saw my kid's doctor yesterday, and told her that his dad spends literally zero time with him at all. She asked if I'd considered giving his Dad some suggestions as to how to spend time with our son.

I firmly suggested back that his father knew how to read, and how to Google, and was capable, if willing, to research that himself without any need for my labour.

Why the $%^& would a man need instruction on how to spend time with his own child anyway ? In what universe is that a thing? I'm not saying the doctor agreed that he should need instruction - but the question itself was mind boggling to me in the underlying assumption that sometimes women have to help men to be ....basic level human ?

Agreed JanesKettle. It's good you responded to the doctor like that and pointed out how ridiculous the suggestion was.

It reminds me of how some men describe themselves looking after their own children as 'babysitting' ie. the expectation is that they shouldn't have to and are doing the mother a favour! It's so ridiculous it's funny, and shows how mindsets are still firmly set in 1952 for many men.

My ex once expected to be praised for chopping up half a vegetable as his contribution to a big, complex and time consuming meal I was making. After chopping up said vegetable he then sat on my sofa and texted other women (I found out later) whilst I continued preparing the meal in the kitchen for an hour.

Brain06626 is a spam. Do not click the link.

The attack and court case sound horrific Rosalisa. Love and strength to you

I agree with Wacademia.

Also this excuses for male behaviour is on a spectrum, the teacher is just one side. When, and it is often women in my experience, defend male bad behaviour I start listing all the reasons I should have excuses and ask what sh*t I can do with regards to the cosmic tally.

• When I come across cases like this I tend to think of it as 'would I consider this person a liability and risk 20 years from now?'

Yes. He encouraged the BOY children in his care to regard the GIRL children as sex objects. He's not going to change his tune if he's made it this far through life with that attitude. And whilst you are giving him the chance to reform (which he won't), how many boys will he teach to objectify girls? How many girls will be hurt by boys acting on his suggestions? How many girls do you think are acceptable collatoral damage for him to have a second chance? My threshold for that is ZERO.*

Bang on @wacademia

Totally agree with the post below. The harm is incalculable. Awful state of affairs.

Thank you all for your good wishes

I think the punishment is appropriate for this particular incident.
I've been to a number of proms where a member of staff has been a little tipsy although usually at year 13 prom. It's always been a little embarrassing for them but they have never been inappropriate (other than being a bit pissed). We are not paid to go to the proms and it is a time to let your hair down.

We are not paid to go to the proms and it is a time to let your hair down.

It’s not a time to be drunk or inappropriate with children. Ffs.

No it's not and he has lost his job and been reprimanded for it.

Sexually objectifying teen girls is different to being a 'little tipsy' and I think the issue is wider of whether or not it was 'embarrassing' for him. Notice, veryboredtoday, how you focus on him and his feelings. Not once do you mention concern for the girls. This thread is about how men's behaviour is excused and I feel veryboredtoday has provided a cracking example.

In the second post in response to JessicaW, veryboredtoday highlights the one bad apple idea - he has been punished so problem solved. This denies that there are cultural and systemic problems and allows the pattern to continue repeating, there will be a new bad apple sexually objectifying teen girls. I wonder if the fact that 'teen' is consistently one of the most popular categories on pornhub has anything to do with it? I wonder if porn pushing the idea that all women are gagging for it has anything to do with it? I wonder if the fetishisation of school uniform has anything to do with it?

Oh well, the problem is solved as one bad apple has been reprimanded.