Is there a place in radical feminism for women who are married to men?

[Namechangeforagamechange]

Just that really. I consider radfem views as most closely aligning with my own, but I am married with 2 children. After being subjected to the most hideous pile on in a radfem Facebook group about relationships with men, I'm left feeling a bit disillusioned.

I'm not libfem in any way, shape or form. So where do I go?

I'll admit I'm feeling a little sensitive atm, I chose to share traumatic experiences I haven't talked about for a long time and it's left me exhausted. I was accused of manipulating behaviour because I said dredging up those feelings had made me cry. I honestly cannot see how explaining that speaking about my own experiences has upset me is manipulating, but then a lot of what I said was taken out of context and twisted.

I will never feel comfortable in a 'Feminist' space where it's OK to tear down a woman when she is talking about past trauma. So where is MY place in feminism? Please, be kind.

Oh and also, while calling women who have radical feminist arguments disgusting, also engaging with and taking seriously male pisstakers . Not saying anyone in particular does dickpandering but it definitely happens and that's not disgusting. But radical feminist arguments are. Its really too much

exactly ^^ like anyone has silenced Sakura, please. Talk about making an entire thread about your own opinion... over and over and over... twisting others words... over and over and over.

Namechange I’m glad you started this so that others understood more about radical feminism, sort of! I used to be in many radfem groups and it never quite fit me as a married to a man, mother. I understand that it’s the group’s, rather than the theory of radical feminism. That’s why I prefer MN as you get women who are feminists or women’s rights campaigners, who don’t particularly align with any wave strictly and take bits from everywhere. It’s been inspiring over the years here and has helped me understand I don’t need to fit into any specific label for myself. And that most forms or types of feminism have something I like and can take onboard in them. My grandmother had valuable opinions, my mother, and my daughter, as different as they all are.

I didnt take what JessicaWakefieldSV said as trying to silence anyone. She was quite rightly commenting on how ridiculous this thread has become. And Sakura you have dominated the thread, and from I've seen, twisted others comments into something entirely different. You, coincidentally or not, remind me of somebody else I came across a week ago 

I have been representing the radical feminist view. You've surmised that radical feminism isn't for you. Radical feminism can't be anything has been my point. And it is indeed unpalatable to many women and that is its downfall.

You’re not a radical feminist... you’re someone who misrepresents it.

Stop bringing a single comment from another thread here. Lots of users have told you they think your extremism is wrong on these boards since you joined, even on this thread. So bore off with targeting me as if I’m silencing you. Dominating a thread and constantly twisting others words is an obvious attempt to hijack this for yourself. You need to do better.

I think most mothers like to think they have some influence over how their children turn out.
But we are told we to think that is "misogynistic mother blaming patriarchal psychological bs"

I find it disturbing the way some women who claim expertise in radical feminist theory end up behaving just like men. Shouting down and dismissing anyone else's opinions, going on and on, wearing you down rather engaging with different view points. It's a bit like becoming the thing you hate.

I think of myself as radfem but not this sort of policing the orthodoxy sort.

You’re not a radical feminist... you’re someone who misrepresents it.

So according to you, a radical feminist is someone who does defend and agree with the institution of marriage?

Just so we're clear

I agree nobody. It's like, not only do we get attacked by men, we have to put up with it from other women too.
Divide and conquer, but from within.
Even the passive aggressive "only men and non-feminist women disagree with my bizarre and extreme viewpoint".

Just so we're clear

No, not clear. Yet again you deliberately twist what someone has said.

Can a radical feminist defend porn too?

Asking for a friend

So according to you, a radical feminist is someone who does defend and agree with the institution of marriage?

Is this a serious question? What a reductive way to address something as vast as radical feminism. There’s not a checklist. And it’s not your criticisms of marriage that is the issue, it’s literally the constant misrepresentations of radical feminism. You’ve already said you’re not one.

Even the passive aggressive "only men and non-feminist women disagree with my bizarre and extreme viewpoint

Right? The fact they’ve dominated this thread is down to most users just not wanting to get caught up in the constant nonsense. It’s a shame the OP’s thread has been hijacked in this way.

You won’t get many women here, radfem or not, defending porn. Porn and marriage are hardly the same.

All of this is complete speculation and not aimed at anyone in particular.

Obviously. However, I thoroughly commend you for your astute observations and will commit myself to Grey Rock.

Because it is generally understood in feminist circles, not even radfem ones, that marriage is problematic, to say the least.

So if you denounce prostitution but defend the patriarchal institution of marriage it literally comes across as slut-shaming. Because otherwise, what is your analysis? On what basis are you against prostitution? It has to be the patriarchal structures that drive women to it, surely? It cannot be about morality.
Prostitutes will say, they would rather be a prostitute than a wife , that being owned by one man, is so against what is acceptable to them, that they would rather be a prostitute: not all prostitutes say this, but some do.

This is literally why liberal feminism took off the way it did: it was a rejection of the "one man one woman" ownership model that many women found abhorrent. It was appealing to make your own money and be independent even if it meant you had to sell it. That the reality of prostitution is different to the dream is almost beside the point. The reality of marriage is very different to the dream, of the femicide rate is anything to go by

I'm even starting to wonder to what extent women denouncing prostitution is, in fact slutshaming. I think it was Solanas that said women would rather sell it than work in one of the utterly shitty jobs available to women in the pink ghetto. And then still get owned by a man anyway because her wage wasn't high enough.

I don't have any doubts about whether or not sex work benefits men or women. Women 'choose' sex work because they have no money and they need money now, today.

Finn Mackay wrote a really useful essay on radical feminism;

''My contention is that this type of misogynist and homophobic anti-feminism attaches particularly to one particular school of feminism and that is Radical Feminism.
While there is no one definition of feminism generally, let alone the schools or types within it, I have previously defined Radical Feminism using four criteria;
First, the acceptance of the existence of patriarchy alongside a commitment to end it.
Second, the use and promotion of women-only space as an organising method.
Thirdly, a focus on all forms of male violence against women and their role as a keystone of women’s oppression broadly.
Fourth and finally, an extension of the analysis of male violence against women to include the institutions of pornography and prostitution. This list is by no means exhaustive and is purely my own interpretation and understanding of this school of feminism.''

I certainly appreciate your posts @sakura184, I think your arguments are interesting, relevant, and I don't understand why people are getting upset. I think they are misunderstanding what you're saying maybe, or used to a different kind of discussion.

Maniak

It is also the case that not every feminist believes in nuclear disarmament.
That is a completely odd contention. But about par for the course.

@Namechangeforagamechange

You've done your absolute best for years to raise your son to be a good person. That's what it sounds like. What more can you do than your absolute best? Of course you couldn't create a perfect world for him. That's impossible and also okay because we're raising them to live in an imperfect world. If, god forbid, your son grew up to rape or abuse someone, I would never blame you in a million years. I would think, if it wasn't for her it would be much worse probably.

If my son becomes a criminal I would try my best to help him so he could get back on track and stop. It's unlikely that my strategy would involve publicly denouncing him, though, because I can't see how that would help at all.

It's so common for people who've been abused to feel guilty either for staying or somehow being worthy of abuse. I'm not sure why that happens or if that's what you're feeling. I can't tell. But just trying to stick things out and help people is a good quality. It really is not something to blame yourself for. It is the fault of the abusive guy and the fault of a social structure that enables violence in sexual partnerships (radical feminism!). I'm really sorry that happened to you.

"It is also the case that not every feminist believes in nuclear disarmament."

@goosefoot it was just an example. The bigger point was she was trying to make was explain the difference between a woman only society and a feminist society.

I mean, I think. That's how I interpreted what she was saying anyway.

Therefore, many females would, even assuming complete economic equality between the sexes, prefer living with males or peddling their asses on the street, thus having most of their time for themselves, to spending many hours of their days doing boring, stultifying, non-creative work for someone else, functioning as less than animals, as machines, or, at best if able to get a "good" job co- managing the shitpile. What will liberate women, therefore, from male control is the total elimination of the money-work system, not the attainment of economic equality with men within it.

Probably one of my favorite quotes of all time. I don't know if it's feminist, radical feminist or non feminist.
I do know it has the words "liberate" and "women" in the same sentence. And that's a rare find. If feminism isn't about talking about liberating women then what is it?

The topic of this thread, is defining radical feminism, otherwise how on earth can we answer the OP's question?