may my mistress catching me in bed with her daughter

[DuploTower]

I was just in the kids section in a bookshop and there was a collection of poems 'to live by', (presumably older kids). I was always quite fond of Roger McGough, but this really bothered me... has feminism turned me into a sour faced bore?

So it's true that even the lovely men want to fuck fuck the daughter of the person they're cheating on their wife with?

I'm being ridiculous arnt I? But I don't want either my son or daughter to read this...

I'm fucking Mary Whitehouse...

Tell me to get a grip?

"Or when I'm 104
and banned from the Cavern
may my mistress
catching me in bed with her daughter
and fearing for her son
cut me up into little pieces
and throw away every piece but one "

Whosorrynow

Hunter s Thompson??
oh come on...of course he was thinking about men not women

Thompson can think about whatever he liked. It's the poverty of your imagination, not his, which causes you the problem of looking at that quote and coming to the conclusion it can't possibly apply to a woman's life.

O woe is me, me I'm so ashamed of my imagined impoverishment

OP....a 104 year old man, having sex with his the daughter of his mistress and then being chopped into little pieces is likely?

Seriously I think people need to get a grip.
It's a comedic poem. It is clearly hyperbole.

It worries me that people, who are in general well educated, can't apply critical thinking to a classic poem. What chance do the general public stand? No wonder literature is dying. Do none of you read Shakespeare or Chaucer? Because there's far more in those to get het up about, I assure you!

Its a poem. Surely not everything has to be clean and wholesome at all times. Its hardly that bad

Whosorrynow
O woe is me, me I'm so ashamed of my imagined impoverishment

I think it shows an impressive amount of blinkered thinking and adherence to sexist stereotypes to look at that quote and come to the conclusion you did.

Do you think If can have no relevance to a young woman because Kipling refers to his son and a man.

Poems don’t reflect the view of the poet necessarily.

Neither does prose literature for that matter. I have been finding the tendency to take everything anyone says in a book, any narrative approach, at face value as a statement of approval by the author, really difficult in recent years.

I think it goes along with the hardening of orthodoxy on the left.

Why are you referring to rape? There's not the slightest suggestion of rape

hence the words 'a little like' and describing another thing people say that it reminds me of.

This rather like decrying Jenny Joseph for wanting to steal stuff and spit when she is old.

No, I'm not saying that the poet is a bad person. I'm saying that what he writes reflects a world where women are props. People != things.

I think you've misremembered that study, that's not the question the men were asked.

The question was

“intentions to force a woman to have sexual intercourse” if they were confident they could get away with it

You're right, when they replaced 'force a woman to have sexual intercourse with the word 'rape' fewer said yes. Doesn't change the meaning of the sentence though.

As to overthinking - this is a discussion board. I think the point is to talk about stuff.

I see it the same way than the OP.

If he is hoping that he won’t die like this, caught in bed with his mistress’ dd, it implies this is a real possibility for that to happen.

And I really didn’t see the link with Greek mythology. It’s not because one is talking about incest and killing each Luther that it’s automatically a reference to it

No, he's hoping he will age, and then die, scandalously. He's afraid of a dull old age. Let me die like a young man, doing something scandalous. And this is the most scandalous thing he can imagine.

Do you think If can have no relevance to a young woman because Kipling refers to his son and a man.

Now who's not taking the context things were written in, into account - fairly certain Kipling didn't think it had relevance to young women. But yes, we can find relevance in it (I love The Thousandth Man myself) - just like I can see a society that objectifies women reflected in the choices for a wild death chosen here.

Yes it's scandalous and fun. And he knows it's unlikely. And it isn't something he would personally aspire to...

But it would be fun, of all the ways to die... to go out with a bang... to be really alive and living until your last breath.. that's how to do it.

I'm not suggesting he plans or endorses this.

But I am saying that he might fantasise about it.

I guess it's the same as when you look at Porn sites and there's all these incest and "step dad" videos with teen girls. Just because men enjoy watching these doesn't mean they approve of others who do or hope to actually do those things themselves. But what goes on in the darker parts of their imagination is still relevant in terms of their overall character.

Of course it can have relevance to a woman. And we can imagine it was.

But I would eat my hat if that's what the author was thinking

When your DC are of age I cant see why they shouldn't read it.
Are there many books/essays/poetry you sensor?
Things like this create debate and discussion as this thread shows

Now who's not taking the context things were written in, into account - fairly certain Kipling didn't think it had relevance to young women

You are missing the point with both Kipling and Thompson.

It is irrelevant what context Kipling or Thompson were thinking of. The issue is was their writing good enough that it can speak to people who are not just like them. The answer is "yes"

But I would eat my hat if that's what the author was thinking

Irrelevant.

Is it irrelevant?

Yes when my kids are of age I won't censor things. Of course I'll let them read it. But by then they won't be children... so I'm still not keen on this being in a book marketed at kids.

I remember reading lolita when I was 14/15 and thinking it was so glamorous.... I fantasised about HH and for a long time believed I had a thing for much older men. I even slept with them. I doubt I would have if I hadn't read lolita. But I wanted to be her.

I know now how gross that is.

I thought she kept his heart!

But yes, the whole poem is over-exaggerations.

I can also imagine a women's version "with a man going enough to be my son" type thing.

I agree it's not exactly a poem for children though!

*young enough

If he is hoping that he won’t die like this, caught in bed with his mistress’ dd, it implies this is a real possibility for that to happen.

But why would you think he really is hoping anything like that?

It is a weird choice for kids. Some do really enjoy over the top dark humour, but i don't see many identifying strongly or really getting this. I find even teens often struggle with literature centred around old age, they just can't relate very easily.

Poems don’t reflect the view of the poet necessarily.

Neither does prose literature for that matter.

Neither do song lyrics, but people do disect them.
I always think how twisted the Weather Girls were - they were hoping it would literally rain men, which would be horrific. There would be bloodied corpses everywhere

I always think how twisted the Weather Girls were - they were hoping it would literally rain men, which would be horrific. There would be bloodied corpses everywhere

The question is were they sadists or necrophiliacs? And were they influenced by porn?

"I can also imagine a women's version "with a man going enough to be my son" type thing. "

No I can't.

Women don't generally fancy men young enough to be their children. Women don't have incestuous fantasies nearly as often as men do. It's alarmingly common among men I've encountered. And porn trends reinforce my anecdata.

My mom, who is 67, fancies that fellow in Outlander.