Are feminists getting played?

[Maniak]

It makes me sad that feminists are spending so much time banging on about bathrooms in a world that has women still working for no pay, old women still more likely to be poor, surrogacy, underfunded maternity care, and poor support for carers. And other stuff.

Yes, the trans thing is annoying, but have you noticed how it always fires up before major elections? It's like Afghanistan in the 80s when the US provided just enough weapons to keep the war going so Russia would use all it's energy and get weak.

I feel like feminism is getting distracted with the trans stuff. At most, it should take up 10 percent of our feminist attention. But I rarely see feminism these days that isn't all about trans. Seriously. Do you think we're getting played here? Is trans really such a big deal?

Yeah I know women get discriminated against for pregnancy. You can hardly miss it. But floralbunting was saying more than that. She was saying it would happen without recourse because of changes to language because of trans.

@maniak consider surrogates

why were those particular people selected to have their bodies exploited?

What do they have in common?

I’ll wait

@BernardBlacksWineIceLolly just say what you mean. It'll be easier.

Jux why are you not defining woman and man buy sex? Why does what they like to wear come into it and how does clothing matter to Male violence? Are perpetrators influenced by masculine styles? Is a woman beaten because of a skirt?

Case by case still messes with the statistics and thus analysis and therefore ultimately policies of redress and prevention.

Maniak, do you really not get that if a woman is sacked because she is pregnant and tries to claim sex discrimination, if males are included in the group 'women', and women are in the group 'men' and we are in law just a mass of humanity only distinguished by who likes pink and who likes blue, she could be told she has no case because men can be pregnant too, and many of the 'women' aren't of the large gamete producing class?

Well your pregnant woman would not be arguing sex discrimination. Her case is she /he/they/ zey were dismissed because she/he/they/zey is pregnant. The protection is for being pregnant.

She doesn't even have to be sacked, no employer will have to hire women as their diversity ratings can just be men when the workforce 'identify' as women and BINGO

Could reality just intrude for a moment? Women are employed- women will continue to be employed.

I very much doubt that in a competition between 2 candidates of equal merit as employees that a 30 year old natal woman would lose out to a 30 year old trans woman. Who is going to fit in, who won't be difficult counts for a lot.

Say what you mean @maniak, because at the moment I’m fucked if I know

Floral bunting was right - change the language then change the comparitor. If policies are sex blind, then they are blind to sex discrimination.

Consider victims of FGM @maniak

What do they have in common?

I’ll wait

She was saying it would happen without recourse because of changes to language because of trans

Which in the case of pregnancy it would not. The protection is given to the state of being pregnant. It's the same as employers making provision for breastfeeding- it is the act of breastfeeding which is protected.

Lass women are discriminated against at interview because of their reproductive potential, because of care demands for elderly relatives which society places on them. So yes, if a company could choose a 'woman' free from these biological possibilities and social roles (because they are the opposite sex) I'm pretty sure they would.

Consider the poor sods paying the owners so they can have their bodies exploited in German mega brothels @maniak

What do they all have in common?

I’ll wait

@floralbunting

I don't live in the UK atm so I'm not sure about workplace laws there.

I'm sorry to challenge you to think of a case. There may not be one, but that doesn't mean your concerns aren't important. I only asked because if there was a case, I would read it.

Maniak, do you really not get that if a woman is sacked because she is pregnant and tries to claim sex discrimination, if males are included in the group 'women', and women are in the group 'men' and we are in law just a mass of humanity only distinguished by who likes pink and who likes blue,

The protected class is Pregnancy in Equal Act.

Sealion? Is that you?

Consider all the people subject to Symphysiotomy

What do they all have in common @maniak?

I’ll wait

I was responding to the idea that we can't discuss women's issues because of trans. And it shocks me (it always does) how easily women hand away power. We're talking about our OWN conversations and our OWN knowledge. It's not so weak.

Giving to men the language used to describe yourself just because they want it is weak.

Not seeing the damage and insidious effects that giving away that language in law and social circumstances will cause shows a lack of critical thinking and intelligence.

Agreeing to use de-humanising descriptors for yourself in order to appease and submit to men is weak.

If you cannot grasp the consequences of this and the impact it will have on women as a class you don't understand women or feminism.

Yeah, Maniak. Like I said, done now. Go well.

Consider the people made so poor by tax credits that they are selling sex

What do they all have in common @maniak?

I’ll wait

Plaemarking to read.

Consider the people abducted from the school in Chibok in 2014 @maniak

What did they all have in common?

Floral bunting was right - change the language then change the comparitor. If policies are sex blind, then they are blind to sex discrimination

No she was not right in the example she gave.

Now consider all the people in my no doubt very annoying posts

What single factor do they all share @maniak?

Do you think language might be important to help us join the dots?

"Sealion? Is that you?"

Fair. I was trying to be nice but it came out weird.