Single sex toilets for men, and mixed sex.....nothing for women only.

[centrifugal]

My local town has installed a set of public toilets; men, and mixed. Nothing for women. I called up to question it/complain, and got a man who got cross and defensive, telling me that men who 'just want to spend a penny' (they are urinals only) use them, and save adding to the queues. So, men can jump the queue, women have to wait with anyone else who wants access to the mixed loos.
Does anybody know if this is allowed? It seems so wrong.

What are they doing with the gents?

This is fucking outrageous.

We have enough queues as it is and that's before you get into the whole perves thing.

It seems to have changed very quickly at the same time we are told the local authorities have no money. Who does this benefit, and why aren't women's feelings enough to make them think again? It is just not acceptable that women's extra needs are not taken into account. This is important and everyone must protest everywhere it is happening.

Link to complain to the council

www.north-norfolk.gov.uk/info/customer-services/complaints-procedure/

By coincidence this very thing pissed me off today. I was at Eight Members Club at Bank in London (popular networking place for IT/Technology/Sales professionals) where they have Mens and Mixed - which are individual cubicles with sinks in. Why do the blokes get 2 sets of toilets and the women have to share one? Why aren't they all just mixed to maximize toilet facilities for everyone?

We either have trad male and female toliets, or all mixed individual cubicle/sink toilets (my preference now I think) - you cant have it both ways!

Still, it doesn't piss me off as much as the newly built major British Airline datacentre 20 odd years ago that only had a Mens and a Disabled toilet, and when I complained, stuck a handwritten "and women" sign on the disabled toilet.

Tfl are doing this too.

Old victorian stations with traditional set ups.

The mens are still mens and the womens are anyone.

They would say, I imagine, that the mens can't be anyone because urinals.

But all the years of trying to flag the inadequacy of public facilities for women, pointing out that lack of facilities can reduce ability to engage in society esp elderly women (of which there are lots), pregnant women, getting studies done to show that the mass closure of public toilets affects women more than men, and all the stuff about 'potty parity' (to borrow the usa phrase).....

All just being undone quickfast and no one even seems to think about it.

And the weirdest thing is women just accept it, don't even notice, as we're used to not being catered to.

When I point out to women, when we are somewhere that does this, they say, oh yes, that's not good.

Then shrug and accept it as their lot..

Is this helpful for your case against mixed sex toilets OP?

www.edp24.co.uk/news/man-who-secretly-filmed-female-students-in-toilets-at-university-of-east-anglia-in-norwich-to-be-sentenced-today-1-4790075

I called again today, and was told he'll try and get one (a reply to my email) to me this week!
I won't hold my breath though, I included links to women's groups information about mixed sex toilets, and mentioned the rise in voyeurism etc, but think they'll just be looking for the quick way to shut me down. I guess if it's legal to do, I haven't really got much hope in changing the minds of angry men who aren't obliged to listen.

A venue near me has labelled their loos "urinals" and "cubicles" (though I'm told there are still cubicles in what used to be the gents). When I pointed out to a staff member that this meant men still had their own loos but women had to share she gazed at me in what looked like bafflement.

@centrifrugal I'm back in Cromer till Sunday. Saddened to see how shabby these loos look now, they are only a couple of years old. I had to wipe piss off the seat yesterday before my daughter could have a wee.

Gorgeous time on the beach yesterday evening though

Surely, if you're going to do this, the more sensible option would be to convert men's to all gender as men's cater for men and women, having both urinals and cubicles.

Yup, personally I would find that ridiculous also, but it makes way more sense than opening the womens up to anyone who fancies it.

And yes, its already 'mixed gender' as all genders can use the areas for their SEX.

SO would I be able to whip my Sheewee out and use the unrinals?

Urggh, men can be so filthy in toilets. I used to be the only woman working on an army base with about 300 men. The only women's toilet became the default place for men to go if they wanted a stinky skiddy shit, or to have a wank and leave their porn mags around. When I objected, I was thoroughly abused. Then they locked the door and instituted a system where if you wanted to go in, you had to go and sign for the key, and sign again when you left it back. A bunch of soldiers with a list of how often I use the loo in work and for how long? Erm, no. That didn't go down well either when I objected.

Slightly off topic, but I needed to vent.

And who wants to lower their trousers into a dirty great piss puddle in front of the toilet 🤮
I'm thinking about writing a freedom of information request in readiness for getting fobbed off, as I fully expect to be.

Observation that seems relevant to this thread: This morning, at an educational establishment that has made its multiple-occupant visitor loos mixed-sex, I saw a man head towards them, then do a u-turn and return to his friends, exclaiming (in a broad Yorkshire accent), "I don't feel entirely comfortable going in there".

So at least some men aren't happy with mixed multiple-occupant loos and would rather have men-only. This just serves to highlight how very deliberate the sexism is of making the women's loos unisex. The people making these decisions are leaving men's loos alone on purpose to avoid angering men. It feels like 1819, never mind 1919, the way women are being trampled on here.

Then they locked the door and instituted a system where if you wanted to go in, you had to go and sign for the key, and sign again when you left it back.

Would it not have made more sense to lock the door and issue you with a key?

Wacademia yes, one would think so. I did suggest this, and got shouted down. I escalated to my seniors, and eventually got my own key, but also a whole world of continuing abuse for having dared challenge their decision.

The army have some very strange cultural issues and warped logic at times. It was a challenging job working alongside them, especially as I was from an outside organisation and a woman.

centrifugal Ask your local council for the Equality Impact Assessment that they carried out before installing these toilets. If you use FOI they have to reply.

You can make an FOI request at www.whatdotheyknow.com/ or look on your council's website for where to send the request. If you use whatdotheyknow your details will be visible to anyone who views the site, so be careful about privacy and what personal details you put on there. I've posted more about that on this thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3652524-Welsh-Assembly-and-the-lost-equality-impact-assessment

Someone on the other thread reports a council being forced to change mixed sex back to single sex after being asked for their equality impact assessment.

Norwich Theatre Royal restaurant toilets have been refurbed to shared male/female toilets with 3 cubicles so we have to share and I felt like I have to accompany 10 yr old DD to the loo when she’s more than capable of going on her own. Where the accessible toilet was has been refurbed into a ‘inclusive’ toilet with the trans and disabled sign. So trans individuals get to chose their own cubicle and everyone else has to share. I don’t think it was very well received by the double take reaction that several of the older gentlemen had when they walked in to find women queuing obviously not used to the new ‘woke; way of things.

Christ. Thanks for the warning @Singleandproud

My mum goes to the theatre in Norwich a lot and wants to take DD sometime

Was very disappointed last week when I went to the De La Warr Pavilion in Bexhill to discover their toilets are now men's and unisex, with no single provision for women. I love going there as they have some excellent events, many of which are free, but am sad to see them pandering to a minority.

It makes no sense at all that women have greater need for toilets because of periods and kids that our provision is reduced. I can't imagine it makes business sense either, mixed toilets do make me think twice about going somewhere.

@mogtheexcellent it was only the restaurant toilets that were unisex the others were as they have always been but no one wants to trek halfway across a theatre building to use the toilet when they are having a meal.

I wonder if this might help, I was going to make a thread about it. Glasgow Tramway had to change their unisex toilets back to single sex for an event, showing their impact assessment was a crock;

''TRAMWAY bosses have been slammed as "exceptionally dishonest" after controversial toilet provision in the South Side venue was altered to accommodate a religious event.

Last month the arts venue came under fire for claiming there was "no evidence" new unisex toilets had caused problems despite police being called after an incident in the loos.''
web.archive.org/web/20190805172211/www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/17815423.tramway-slammed-controversial-toilets-changes-religious-event/

I felt like I have to accompany 10 yr old DD to the loo when she’s more than capable of going on her own

Core to the whole transwagon is an utter disregard for families, both parents and children.

• Children put at risk by dismantling of safeguarding? They don't care.
• Parents placed under an additional burden to escort 10 year old girls to the unisex loo to keep them safe from predatory men? They don't care.
• Mothers suffering mental illness relapses because of their transitioning children? They don't care.
• The utter utter contempt they show for women and our reproductive role speaks volumes. There's a twitter thread I can't find where a woman talked about giving birth and a female non-binary handmaid said "So you gave birth. What do you want, a medal?"

This whole ideology ignores families as the fundamental unit of society and is incompatible with family-centred policies. I'm child-free and it's glaringly obvious even to me.