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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

I'm not convinced that feminism has helped the women it should have?

905 replies

soapona · 22/07/2019 13:18

I think on these discussion boards and on my Facebook I see women. They don't insist on marriage so they partner remains married to the ex for years and year, they live together and I wonder what will happen should the man die. I also see women with no security living with men with no intentions of marrying and having children. Women moving in with men too soon. In the days gone by women would and could have insisted on commitment. So now the position for women is worse hanging round waiting for a proposal.

I know they don't have to I'm fairly wealthy and a single parent so have choices and always have. I don't have a lot to gain from marriage.

I'm not sure things have got better for women we are expected to do a lot now two incomes are the usual for a mortgage instead of one in the olden days . So it's a given women work, do the most childcare do we honestly think these thing will change when the power imbalance is there from the beginning?

Also the women marrying "beneath themselves", that's not the correct term but a man earning less and not likely to come into a decent inheritance. What is the point in getting married there if you're a women? Perhaps if the woman is wealthy to avoid inheritance tax for her children but other than that I don't know?

So would woman not be happier marrying the same or above and insisting on marriage early on, like it was a given in days gone by?

Surely Women are now in very risky positions due to this living together in a man's property. I see much more domestic abuse these days. I believe the stats are much higher with non married couples. Surely living together unmarried has been caused by equality and feminism and the very people feminists has been trying to help they've hindered.

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soapona · 23/07/2019 00:49

@dodgeballchamp

I think your post is fantastic, but it's not reality. I am thankful to feminists but let's not pretend and speaking as a single mother that two living parents is the gold seal. Unless women want to live on their own with cats that isn't going to work we are different from men.

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dodgeballchamp · 23/07/2019 00:52

Sex education has a lot to answer for in that respect. I don’t know what it’s like now but when I had it at school it was very much about the physical facts and not much else. Teenagers need to be taught that it is absolutely valid and OK to choose NOT to have sex, as it is to have sex, about consent, mutual respect etc. However I don’t think sex positivity is a bad thing. That women can now openly say they enjoy recreational sex (not entirely without judgement, but it’s not the taboo it once was) is a good thing. That shouldn’t mean women who don’t want that are pressured into feeling they should, though.

As for your point about motherhood sakura I think the Nordic countries have got a good model with more state support for parents in the early years. But I still think the fact that fathers don’t participate to the same degree (aside from physical things they can’t do, like breastfeeding) is societal. In my opinion we should talk about parenthood, not just motherhood. Yes, my body would be the one growing a human but once it’s in the world it’s a joint responsibility. If society offered that as a starting point (encouraging more active participation of fathers and support for both parents to take time out of work etc, with flexible schemes that could be divided between parents how they see fit) then it would be up to individual couples if they wanted to split 50/50 as is the default or for one of them to be the primary carer. At the moment everything is geared towards the mother shouldering 100%, taking away that element of choice.

sakura184 · 23/07/2019 00:53

we are different from men.

The rape and femicide statistics I've learned since becoming a feminist! Roughly once every 16 hours in the USA a woman is shot and killed by her current or former male partner. The differences between men and women couldn't be starker. I feel like we're two different species.

soapona · 23/07/2019 00:54

@sakura184 I'm being educated in your blog, what's PIV?

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sakura184 · 23/07/2019 00:55

l. In my opinion we should talk about parenthood, not just motherhood.

I am totally and utterly and angrily against this notion. I think people who say this are fathers rights activists and the MRAs basically say the same thing.

I'm a mother's rights activist. I don't know if it's a thing. I just invented it

sakura184 · 23/07/2019 00:55

PIV = Penis in Vagina sex

As opposed to other types of sex

dodgeballchamp · 23/07/2019 00:55

It’s my reality OP. I don’t consider myself any different from men. What’s wrong with living alone, cats or not? The fact you can’t even say that without a disparaging tone is telling. I’d even go so far as to say we should be actively discouraging women and girls from pursuing heterosexual relationships as a priority, and instead viewing them as an optional addition to the life they can cultivate for themselves

dodgeballchamp · 23/07/2019 00:58

Right sakura but that’s you. So you don’t think fathers should have rights? If I become a mother I certainly don’t want to be wholly defined by it or for society to assume that I’ll shoulder 100% of the responsibility. It takes two to create a child and it should be structurally encouraged that two will look after it. It makes me equally as angry that for some women possessing a womb is the defining point of their identity. We’re so much more than that

HelenaDove · 23/07/2019 01:00

We have now got mothers saving up for their maternity leave so they arent "scrounging" off their partner WTF is that about.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3582145-Expectations-of-mothers-includes-financial-abuse

sakura184 · 23/07/2019 01:00

No I don't think fathers should have rights. I appreciate that's an extreme opinion and I expect a lot of anger for suggesting it but that's what I think.
I've seen so many cases of a court awarding custody to the father, even though he was known for being a domestic abuser, and who then goes on to murder the kids . Obviously this is an extreme example but it all comes from the same idea that fathers rights trump mothers rights. I am dead dead against it

sakura184 · 23/07/2019 01:01

HelenaDove

We have now got mothers saving up for their maternity leave so they arent "scrounging" off their partner WTF is that about.

I know, it's gross isn't it. All in the name of equality: what a joke

soapona · 23/07/2019 01:01

@dodgeballchamp Apologies for the cheeky tone. What I mean is biologically we are made to nurture and it's kind of nice to feel cherished with the right man. You know happy, respectful, secure relationships are good for the soul.

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HelenaDove · 23/07/2019 01:02

Im child free by choice. Im also in a low income group. I saw how much was expected of women and decided to opt out.

soapona · 23/07/2019 01:03

@HelenaDove Yes this is what feminism now amount to unfortunately!

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dodgeballchamp · 23/07/2019 01:04

“biologically we are made to nurture”???? Oh please do piss off with this crap. Women are not a homogenous soup of softly-spoken Disney characters just waiting to be impregnated so they can coo over the baby they’re biologically predestined to want. I’d rather chop off my legs than procreate thanks.

sakura184 · 23/07/2019 01:06

It's in the same vein as the woman downthread who said men think in terms of "we're all equal now so I can punch you in the face".
I'm not sure it's feminism to blame but feminism has been totally cooped by the patriarchy and it's all because of the equality rhetoric

HelenaDove · 23/07/2019 01:06

I was 21 when i decided not to have children. i didnt realize what a political i made until i got older. I even had a man tell me i cant be human.

As a sex men seem to begrudge paying for their children but also dont like it when some of us women decide to give motherhood a swerve.

HelenaDove · 23/07/2019 01:07

*political choice

sakura184 · 23/07/2019 01:09

dodgeballchamp

I didn't particularly want children but I'm telling you that after I gave birth i became very primal and didn't want to be apart from my child. It was a total unexpected shock. I think the mum is supposed to raise the baby in the early years.
I know it sounds gross and anti feminist but it's how I experienced it . I think birth is just totally denigrated by all and sundry so that even expressing this is taboo

sakura184 · 23/07/2019 01:11

I also realized how totally weird and cruel it was for a father, the state, or anybody to separate a child from its mother. That's why I'm a mother's rights activist.

I appreciate some mother's are happy to go back to work and be away from their kids and let the man take on the parenting: but I wasn't like that

dodgeballchamp · 23/07/2019 01:11

sakura I’m not familiar with the cases you’re talking about but I don’t think anyone would disagree abusive fathers should not be given custody, or that a father who is a potential danger to children should forfeit their rights. However saying fathers shouldn’t have any rights at all is ridiculous. If they have no legal status as a parent how will absent fathers be compelled to pay child support? How will they prove their identity as fathers if they take their children somewhere without the mother? What about couples who decide the father will be the stay at home parent, does he lose all his rights in a split? Fathers rights should start from a point of being equal to mother’s rights, and modified from there accordingly.

As for saving up for a mat leave I’m not really seeing the issue? Seems quite sensible to me, if I knew I’d be off work for an extended period I’d make financial provisions for it! There’s no reason this couldn’t also be something a couple would save up for together

soapona · 23/07/2019 01:11

@sakura184 when you say fathers should have no rights. Are you suggesting they have no paternal rights in law? I don't know about that we are already infantilising men enough. Men don't seem to be driven to look after their families like they did in years gone by. I would prefer to see men be more grown up and look after their children and wives. Financially and Emotionally.

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sakura184 · 23/07/2019 01:13

I think if a man offers some financial contribution to the children, and the mother assesses him as safe, then sure he should get to see his kids. I think men should get to see and spend time with their kids. But that should be based on complete respect of the mother.
Men override the mother to enact their rights over their children. I'm against it. Hence I'm not a fathers rights activist, I'm a mother's rights activist

sakura184 · 23/07/2019 01:14

So often the mother is accused of parental alienation syndrome for example , because she doesn't want the dad to see the kids, and the truth is the dad has been abusive to her and she is therefore completely right in keeping him away from the kids. Mother's rights all the way for this feminist

soapona · 23/07/2019 01:18

@sakura184 but parent alienation does not exist. Women are flawed humans too. Do you ever feel sorry for Fathers?

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