Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Flip

1 2 3 4

Original poster

Are you abducting these children madam?

92 replies

Victoriapestis01 · 21/07/2019 12:43

Well, holiday season is here again, so I’m bracing myself for questioning from airport staff about why my children (or at least, those of them I’m taking on holiday with me) have a different surname from me.

I do appreciate that airports need to take child abduction very seriously. Also that in our society most mothers do have the same surname as their children. But I also feel very irritated by the assumption that I would change my birth surname to a male partner’s surname, or keep my ex partner’s surname. Do others feel the same? Is this a feminist issue, or just an inevitable aspect of life?

One time, I was kept in a room at the airport until the staff had contacted my then FIL who fortunately was picking me up at the airport! He had to vouch for me.......I was a woman on the loose with children and no man.... ...clearly a menace.

OP posts:

EverardDigby · 21/07/2019 14:26

I guess if she'd queued behind you as a solo traveller it'd have looked less suspicious and been clearer she was travelling if her own free will!

That's what we concluded for next time!

EverardDigby · 21/07/2019 14:28

EverardDigby what do you think under 18’s who are being trafficked are told to say? Lots of uncles, aunts, mum’s friends out there.

But this could be an argument for stopping every child, not just ones with a different name. The main pointlessness about it though was that I was bringing them back to the UK!

breaker · 21/07/2019 14:45

@Skyejuly are you Kerry katona?!

MrsAJCrowley · 21/07/2019 14:53

My friend always has issues taking her kids through airports as she has a different surname to them. By coincidence I have the same surname as the children (not related at all). So when we went on a group holiday to make life easier for her my dh and her booked their flights together and I booked on with her dh and the kids and we all sailed through the airport with no issues at all! Probably not advised but worked a dream

PhoenixBuchanan · 21/07/2019 15:30

I've only been questioned once, but the name issue is a red herring. Even if you share a surname with a child you could still be abdicating them- I suspect most children abducted across borders share a surname with the parent taking them. In Canada you are expected to travel with documentation from the other parent OKing the trip, which I think is actually sensible.

HappyPunky · 21/07/2019 15:33

I think it's a good thing that there is extra security for children crossing borders. I'd rather be stopped and checked every time than have to fight to get DD returned to me from abroad.

I think children's last names should include their mother's. Either on its own or like Spanish last names. DD has mine and I wouldnt have registered her without my last name.

timeisnotaline · 21/07/2019 15:36

But I also feel very irritated by the assumption that I would change my birth surname to a male partner’s surname, or keep my ex partner’s surname.

I’m offended you’re ignoring the majority of cases- women like me who didn’t change their name on marriage but whose children have their husbands name as that’s not a hill I choose to die on. (If we weren’t married pigs would fly before our children had his name)

SimonJT · 21/07/2019 15:39

My son and I have flown twice, we were stopped on each occasion the answer the following “Where is his mother?” Well he doesn’t have one, but I had no paper proof on me, secondly they wanted to know why he was travelling on a British passport and I wasn’t. We have driven to France twice and we haven’t been questioned.

We have the same surname and we’re the same ethnicity.

This year we’re off to Spain, I now have a British passport so I’m curious as to whether or not we will be stopped.

veryboredtoday · 21/07/2019 15:43

I had this when travelling in Eurostar from Paris. I offered for them to keep my tantruming 3 year old if they wanted. It didn't go well!!

LassOfFyvie · 21/07/2019 15:48

My own kids have my surname but I'm aware this makes me the exception and I have never particularly 'identified' as feminist

I have my name but my son, to my regret, has my husband's name. I don't identify as a feminist- I just always thought my name was my name.

My regret is I didn't think of it at the time and my surname is far more unusual and nicer than my husband's dreadfully mundane one.

butteryellow · 21/07/2019 15:55

Also that in our society most mothers do have the same surname as their children.

I'm really not sure that's the case any more.

I travel a lot with my kids, one has my surname, one has their dad's. I've never had a problem except going into Ireland, where the dude on passport control said that I should bring a photo of DS's birth certificate to prove that he's mine.

The ridiculous thing is how easy it is to change your name in the UK or Ireland - it's literally print off a deed poll and sign/witness it and you can get a passport in a new name. If you were organised enough to want to run away with a child, it would be no problem at all to have the same name as them.

EverardDigby · 21/07/2019 15:55

* In Canada you are expected to travel with documentation from the other parent OKing the trip, which I think is actually sensible.*

I can see the logic behind this, except it would cause problems for those of us with disengaged, or even worse, abusive ex partners (which is quite a lot of us!). I don't know what the legal position is for those of us with mid-teens before the rules about parental responsibility and birth certs changed, as I am the only parent who has this.

IdaBWells · 21/07/2019 16:04

DD's best friend here in the US has a white dad and a mum whose family background in Vietnamese and Philippino. Her friend is darker skinned than her dad with long luscious dark hair. They share the same last name and he was still detained at the American border coming back from Canada, separated from his dd and questioned for some time. She was under 10 at the time so I think that was a factor.

LaurieFairyCake · 21/07/2019 16:17

The problem is the kid having a different name

If they had your name it would be fine - or a double barrelled name with yours in it, also fine

Your children should have both your names

Lazydaisies · 21/07/2019 16:17

DH same surname as our children faced questioning on why he would be taking children anywhere on his own without their mother. Same coin, different side??

Cazziebo · 21/07/2019 16:18

I do have the same surname as my DCs and was challenged several times as to why I was travelling alone with children and did I have their father's permission. (XH has different name but that was never questioned!)

I had sole care and control as it was called in Scotland then - no legal need for permission. Much easier to carry a letter from XH with his contact details and his "permission". No issues in Europe but was interviewed in Canada - that was scary.

Travelling to the US, one homeland security worker said to DD aged about 5 " You're too cute to be away from your pa. Why is he not with you?" I felt that would have been very inappropriate if the other parent had died recently rather than buggered off with a colleague

US and Canada very hot on abductions - and it's often the absent parent so can see why they are so diligent.

MagneticSingularity · 21/07/2019 16:19

It’s not a feminist issue it’s an issue of parents who don’t have the same last name as children they are traveling with. To me, the obvious and simple solution would be to include the names of the parents or guardians on minors’ passports. Other adults accompanying children without their parents should be required to carry documentation showing parental consent.

BertieBotts · 21/07/2019 16:20

I haven't spoken to DS1's father in about nine years. I explain this every time when they ask where he is. Luckily because he's able to back me up they have never taken it any further but I have to travel with his birth certificate, my marriage certificate and a document showing he lives here and is enrolled in school.

However we never ever get questioned when we drive/sail - only ever when we fly. It is much more convenient to do this!

I find it intrusive and I resent the idea that parents should need to carry a letter of permission/acknowledgement. It's possible to put a block/call out for specific children if those children are at risk of abduction, that would be a better system than suspect every parent automatically.

Superchill · 21/07/2019 16:34

I have a residence order for mine. Which means I can take them abroad for 28 days, without father's permission.

The border staff ask, and then have no idea what they're looking at. I think it's basic courtesy that if you ask for evidence, you know what that evidence is likely to look like.

Gwenhwyfar · 21/07/2019 16:37

"I think the fact you have a different last name to you children is also a feminist issue. Why is their name different to yours?"

I don't have my mum or my dad's surname. Is my mum a feminist or not?
When I was a child it wasn't an issue obviously because children travelled under their parents' passport.
I don't understand why there isn't just a section listing parents or guardians in a child's passport.

Gwenhwyfar · 21/07/2019 16:39

"By coincidence I have the same surname as the children (not related at all)"

This is why it's so ridiculous. Ms Jones can't take children Smith on holiday, but their aunt Ms Smith and any other random Smith women can.

ShagMeRiggins · 21/07/2019 16:42

In the late 60s my American father was on duty in south east Asia for an extended tour of duty so my French mother took us from the US back to France to benefit from the support of her family while he was away.

I was a baby, my brother was one, we all have the same surname. She needed a letter with my father’s permission and didn’t have one (who knew?). She was detained in Paris while—I still can’t believe this—my brother and I were handed over to my French grandparents and taken to their village, 300 miles away.

Once my father was contacted in Asia and had given His Word As A Man, by phone, she was released and able to join us.

To this day I have no idea how any of this was verifiable (that it was my father, for example, that they were in fact married), but the Word of a Man seemed to satisfy the authorities.

Having said that, I don’t think of this as a feminist issue, more a poorly handled attempt at safeguarding issue. And 40+ years later, no country seems to get it especially right.

Superchill · 21/07/2019 16:43

This is why it's so ridiculous. Ms Jones can't take children Smith on holiday, but their aunt Ms Smith and any other random Smith women can.

Exactly. I am the only person who can legally remove my children from the jurisdiction. I can prove that.

Yet, my proof is treated with suspicion. And a distant relative who happens to have the same surname could go through unnoticed, illegally. It's a nonsense. And the staff appear to be making it up as the go.

Auntpetunia2015 · 21/07/2019 16:44

I take my Deed Poll document with me. Dd is 16 and she still gets asked

BertieBotts · 21/07/2019 16:45

I also think it's shit for DS1 to have to explain to a border official "Yes my father doesn't give a shit about me" every single time we visit home. He doesn't want to keep bringing that up, he's forgotten about it.

Flip

1 2 3 4