Toilets

[Newjobnewstart]

I had my first experience of a man in female toilets tonight (was dressed as a female) and im ashamed to say i was terrified. I had my 9 year old dd with me when he walks in. Laughing how he was desperate for loo and its only a bit of brown titty and dicky.
I didnt even let dd wash her hands just grabbed her and ran out. On holiday in florida so dont know if its allowed here but dreading this being norm at home
Sorry if not making sense its 1 am here and im beyond tired. Just had to get it out.

@Barracker - absolutely spot on.

Any woman who doesn't realise the severity of this issue is either stupid or uninformed. The ramifications are huge and devastating to our rights to safe single-sex spaces.

I will NEVER accept a man in our spaces and I have every reason not to. And after what my family has been through, I would kill any man who posed a threat to any of my daughters, and I wouldn't care if I spent the rest of my life in jail. Of course, if the man tried to kill me, chances are he would walk away scot free.

I carry a small perfume spray would that be seen as a weapon? If not I've been considering a return to kick boxing and self defence so I'm going to sign up if I can't even use that.

And as ever Barracker said it better than I could, no one asked women or girls and they haven't asked this time around either, so no one ever agreed and spoke for all women and girls, it was the socialisation of 'being nice' that let those men in the women's toilets in the first place.

My local theatre has now gone full on TRA with a big sign on the female and gents loos saying anyone is entitled to use the loos who self identifies as either sex.

Here we go again!

Opinion:
"we had quietly accepted old school transsexuals using women's spaces (though many choose not to) and not see them as perverts/fetishists for living the way they want."

Response:
You are not allowed to speak for all women - how dare you!

Only I am privileged to speak for all women about our boundaries!

No woman or girl ever really thought, yup, I'm totally fine with that big man in here with me. Barracker

And

Any woman who doesn't realise the severity of this issue is either stupid or uninformed. Sicario

Dismissive, insulting, condescending, silencing. It's almost as though you've swallowed the nodebate pill.

Try showing others expressing a more moderate position the courtesy you expect, rather than stomping on anyone who deviates from your orthodoxy.

FWIW, I think there is an important distinction to be made between 'old school transsexuals' and the self ID brigade and I also think women only toilets + unisex toilets is the way forward. But I don't think you're stupid or ill informed if you disagree with either position.

Sorry OP that you and your daughter were scared. Not a nice end to the holiday.

The option that is available to that the average UK citizen and is, in some ways, the UK version of pepper spray would be one of the Deterrent Self-Defence sprays. These sprays are typically:

Non Toxic
Fully Legal to own in the UK
Can be owned and carried by anyone over 18
Compact & Discreet
Non-Lethal
Criminal Identifier Staining
Accurate to 4+ Metres
Proven to be highly effective

Sabre is one of the brand's that make this legal spray.

Tory politician who promoted gender neutral bathrooms charged with paedophilia. www.fort-russ.com/2019/07/uk-politician-who-pushed-for-gender-neutral-bathrooms-is-charged-with-9-counts-of-pedophile-child-sex-abuse/

We had a visitor to these threads earlier today. Not sure whether they were their who their namesake said they were.

But it piqued my interest.

Had a look at one of their namesake's training sessions on trans. (All the normal genderbread spectrum, mauling of the Equality Act etc).

On toilets:

There is no law in this country, as far as I'm aware, that says that toilets are gender specific
...
Trans women, for example, in my case I go the toilet, I do what I need to do, wash my hands and get the hell out of there.
I usually don't do what my colleagues do is sit around and chat in the toilets. (huh? Strange workplace!)
And I don't do that because it's probably seen differently because I'm trans.

So I just get my job done and get the hell out of there.

It is what it is.

I think as time goes on, maybe that'll change

But at the moment, I feel like it's my place to make people feel safe. in the toilets at work (laughs). Why, Helen? Why would there be a need for women to feel 'safe' around you? By you spending as little time in the toilet as possible? There's a little 'tell' there.

Sometimes I get collared by some of my friends, and get collared with a 50 minute conversation about their boyfiends. Kind of cute actually. (Back to the trope of women and their general use of toilets, and transwomen being part of the in-group)

(Goes on to try to put people off reading the Equality Act by comparing it to War and Peace, but saying it's useful)

qalliance.org.uk/working-to-improve-trans-awareness-in-milton-keynes

Actually Baracker you don’t speak for all women and many of them were okay with transsexuals who had had surgery to remove their penis to use female facilities. If you had asked me the question five years ago, I would absolutely have said that this was okay and so would most of my acquaintances. I was a young teen when the Hayley storyline on Coronation Street was shown and I remember how bigoted I thought the women who objected to sharing a toilet with her were (so even as a young girl I had these views). I was of the view that if you look like a woman now, you use the female facilities. It’s now that trans means pre-op and a load of other things that I realise the situation is untenable and the only solution is third spaces.

But don’t claim to say that all women were always against transsexuals using spaces post-surgery because so many of us weren’t actually.

I theoretically was (and possibly am) okay with post-op transsexuals using the same toilet as me. But that’s my personal and subjective view and it’s still, in spite of everything, about being kind.

Two things I will say though.

1. If someone dressed as a woman, but still obviously male-born enters a toilet, unless I know them personally and trust them, even I will find it uncomfortable. I suspect there are few women who would feel entirely unconcerned.

2. If other women would feel the above reaction more strongly than I would, then their opinion matters MORE than mine. I recognise that I have so far, been fortunate in that the sexual assaults I have experienced have been relatively minor.

. Tory politician who promoted gender neutral bathrooms charged with paedophilia. www.fort-russ.com/2019/07/uk-politician-who-pushed-for-gender-neutral-bathrooms-is-charged-with-9-counts-of-pedophile-child-sex-abuse/

Well, well. Adding this to 'it never happens' thread.

theoretically was (and possibly am) okay with post-op transsexuals using the same toilet as me. But that’s my personal and subjective view and it’s still, in spite of everything, about being kind

Same

But barracker has it spot on .

I get less kind as I get older.

Is this going to be this weekend's 1000 post thread? Beware of the screenshotters.

If other women would feel the above reaction more strongly than I would, then their opinion matters MORE than mine. I recognise that I have so far, been fortunate in that the sexual assaults I have experienced have been relatively minor.

This.

Plus, as we now see in stark clarity, males will always push boundaries. The only answer is a resounding no - if not for oneself, for all the women who don't consent.

It's simple. I don't consider it acceptable (or possible) for me, or anyone else, to consent on another person's behalf.

We know it's about pushing boundaries. And I will always advocate for women and girls to be empowered to se their own.

OP, I'm sorry. What a horrible experience. Men in women's toilets is not ok. We shouldn't need to keep saying that.

I don't understand why it's not obvious to everyone that same sex toilets were there originally because of the danger to women, a danger that hasn't lessened; that before same sex toilets were available, women were tied to their own houses, or within reach of a friend's house; that women couldn't go out to work.

What is so fucking difficult to understand? Women are vulnerable, and the world is full of people who take advantage of vulnerable.

Sometimes I get collared by some of my friends, and get collared with a 50 minute conversation about their boyfriends

I am a 42 year old woman and I have never seen this happen. it's pure fantasy, especially in a work setting

To clarify I did mean transsexuals - the kind existing laws are for and ironically who don't want self dec as they meet the requirements already, and to be honest I may not have noticed them in the toilets if they had feminising surgery and didn't behave like the man in the OP. I wasn't on high alert before the self ID mob gained the prominence they have in recent years. I know some women agree but now ANY transwhatevertheycallthemselves are being brought down and loosing any acceptance women ever had. And sorry but refusing other points of view or dismissing my post as 'stupid and uninformed' is classic TRA tactics. Heck it doesn't matter what laws are changed, the trans lobby have brought themselves down with their misogyny and ignorance of women and our boundaries.

I am a 42 year old woman and I have never seen this happen. it's pure fantasy, especially in a work setting

Same - and I am slightly older than you. This actually is one of those things that never happens.

Tory politician who promoted gender neutral bathrooms charged with paedophilia.

I’m so shocked! If he’s found guilty, that would suggest that he was pushing for unisex toilets for his own nefarious reasons! Surely not? Men would never try to force missed sex spaces on women and children in order for bad men to gain access to vulnerable women/girls! Tell me it ain’t so!!

There may be a teeny bit of sarcasm in my post, just in case no one noticed.

Sorry is this has been posted elsewhere. It's the Daily Mail; a USA case.
A transgender male wants to use the boys' facilities at school but his school is saying they need to use the girls' -- even though they have changed birth certificate to male and have a court order.

Gavin Grimm, a transgender male, was barred from using boys' bathrooms at Gloucester High School back in 2014
He launched court proceedings against his school board in 2015, and the legal battle is still raging on
A lawyer representing the school board told a federal court on Tuesday that they stand by the bathroom ban
The school claims they still classify Grimm as biologically female because he has not undergone reassignment surgery
They argue their bathroom policy is based on a binary 'two choices for all' view of sex, rather than 'gender as a societal construct'

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7275475/Virginia-schools-transgender-bathroom-ban-court.html?fbclid=IwAR19mE2IumaUtG39UVSXOCrQJdbbxSBE58lgyQ1Qu81h3WGEUX5QQJ9qAUo

I want to know why, when it's the other way around, transwomen are almost always allowed to use the women's?

Also, DM commenters seem pretty confused. Usually they are very GC with their "PC gone mad" comments, but in this case, they are saying this person should use the men's... despite female biology.

I want to know why, when it's the other way around, transwomen are almost always allowed to use the women's?

Because it's men that do the deciding.

Everytime.

The fuckers.