Help needed to explain to my gay friend about what is wrong with mermaids

[QueQueQue]

As the title says. My son has been referred to GIDs by CAMHS and my friend is asking why I won't contact mermaids instead.

Drinks have been had so I would really appreciate a succinct response instead of me wittering on about jelly baby training 🙈🙏🏼Arch

Maybe explain you dont need to go to mermainds, your son has been to CAMHS and has a referal to GIDS. Even if you contacted mermaids your son would still need to go to GIDS.

Good luck, I hope things work out for your son.

Because they are scammers

They are a lobby group with no medical expertise. Why would you go to them?

They are not medically trained and they have a reputation for pushing for medical intervention before a thorough assessment can be carried out. Correct assessment must be considered essential before any treatment with potentially irreversible effects is given.
I wish you and your son well.

They are a lobby group with no medical expertise.

This is basically all you need to say, if anything.

Go into the GIDS process with your eyes open too.

See the other thread in feminism chat.

About Mermaids I would say it is founded by a woman who took her then son to Thailand on his 16th birthday and paid to have his penis and testicles removed. This is something that would have landed her in prison had she had her Dd’s genitals cut off (FGM).

Also that they advocate puberty blockers for pre pubescent children, with irreversible effects and increasing the risk of cancer.

QueQueQue

My best advice is, read the TransgenderTrend web site .. every page of it:

www.transgendertrend.com/

Wouldn’t you have to go through something like GIDS at some point anyway regardless of whether or not you contacted Mermaids?

I saw this about GIDS online earlier today OP:

blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/07/its-time-to-listen-to-the-nhs-gender-clinic-whistleblowers/

Maybe point out that they recently had a serious leak of very sensitive data relating to the children they support. And there is no way that you would trust them with personal information relating to your son until an enquiry is complete and lessons have demonstrably been learned (or ever)?

You don't need to answer to your friend about decisions you make about your own child.

I'd keep it really simple:

• Mermaids don't follow the NHS recommendations for treatment of GD, they follow a much more aggressive plan based on American practice with a poor evidence base.

• The outcomes for Mermaid's approach are much poorer than the NHS. 20% of patients going on to puberty blockers from the Tavi, rising to 80% with Mermaids intervention.

I would steer clear of the politics of it and focus on the fact that you'd rather have your kid treated by actual doctors with a much better history of success.

Thank you all, like I said drink has been had (we're pissed 😬)

My friend is my son's godfather, we've known each other for 30 years and he knows all about my son questioning his gender identity (which I'm fully supportive of which is why we've gone the CAMHS / GIDS route). Not to drip feed, but my son has Aspergers which I think could play a massive part in all this. And why I want him to get proper counselling before meds are prescribed.

My friend is comparing things to when he came out in the 90s and said that he's heard from his friends that Mermaids would be a great place to refer my son to for support.
I read these boards regularly
and couldn't articulate myself properly to why not so thanks all

Just to add - I've asked my son many times if he would prefer me to use gender neutral pronouns, etc and he said no he's my son for now. So I'm not misgendering him before anyone has a go

Ask your friends when they were teens whether they liked all the stereotypical boy things like football, cars etc. Ask them if they were ever called girly if not. Ask them if anyone has ever implied they are not 'proper men' for not confirming to gender stereotypes or being gay. Ask them whether that means they think their mind or body is wrong and that they should have taken medication or had surgery to address this.

Do you actually get "proper counselling" via GIDS though or is it just affirmation?

In the video where de transitioned Thomasin is interviewed by GNC Ben, she says that in her experience the GIDs service for under 18s has more gatekeeping than the adult service which she says is pretty much ask and you get.

This piece is certainly helpful and all the Tavistock times reports over the last year - need to compile them all in one place really.

Open letter to Dr Polly Carmichael from a former GIDS clinician www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3641792-open-letter-to-dr-polly-carmichael-from-a-former-gids-clinician

Prob not for drunken debating mind you

How's your head this morn?!

I think this endo describing how affirmative therapy is destructive is also useful; unfortunately all very long

Jonny best has written some good pieces and is gay so that might help.

medium.com/@JonnnyBest/an-intro-to-me-and-where-to-start-with-my-writing-on-lgbt-politics-gender-ideology-7072fd5459e8

Hasn't directly comment on mermaids as far as I can tell

@donquixotedelamancha are those figures re puberty blockers in children with or without mermaids available? It is pretty shocking.

My understanding is that GIDS is only an assessment service, so deciding who is a candidate for puberty blockers rather than exploring more deeply what underlies their gender dysphoria. Camhs refer straight to GIDS, GIDS see for up to 4 assessment sessions then either discharge or refer on. Worse, camhs seem nervous of being involved - possibly fearing accusations of conversion therapy.

The danger is that those clinicians who are thoughtful are disillusioned and leave, with only the affirmative black and white thinkers willing to work there.

are those figures re puberty blockers in children with or without mermaids available? It is pretty shocking.

Those are the estimates given by Mermaids and by (IIRC) the head of the Tavistock on radio 4. They were both approximate numbers for those pursuing medical transition (so yes, PB although most who start PB will then go on to cross sex hormones).

I don't have a citation, I'm afraid, but shouldn't be hard to find. To point you in the right direction if interested:

I've seen figures around 80% non-medical desistance of those with GD from several places and because that figure was common the much higher Mermaids rate was quite widely commented on. It's on threads here.

The national lottery did a report on Mermaids which comments on their different approach from NHS. Mermaids were at a GD conference which covered the American 'non-questioning' approach recently, where they were talking about how to persuade the NHS to do as they wish- there was an extensive commentary on their twitter feed.

There have been several articles recently from NHS staff (mostly GD specialists psychologists from the Tavi) about how Mermaids target individual doctors they feel are insufficiently affirmative with complaints and how they coach children on the symptoms of GD in order to progress to blockers (hence the higher uptake). Most of these article were in the Times.

Mermaids did a press release explaining their methodology on complaints and child coaching in response to a Times article. There was a thread about it in FWR several months back.

Thanks everyone for the replies, there's such a lot to read through and get my head around.
I spoke to my friend last night and he has totally changed his point of view after I shared some of the things people posted.
And I know he's my son, so my decision, but I respect my friends opinion and so wanted to tell him about mermaids and why they're not the fantastic charity that supports kids as he'd heard. My son's youth worker is also a mermaids advocate ☹️
(And yes felt rough this morning for PP who asked 😂)
I'm just scared for my son that because of his Aspergers he doesn't fit in and so he's buying into societal definitions of gender (he likes having long hair, has his ears pierced, has never liked any stereotypical boy activities like football, etc).
Thanks again all

Hi I was a gender non conforming child who probably has aspergers. In those days I never thought of changing gender but I did not like a lot of girl things. I did not feel that I fitted in a lot of the time. It was hard.

The critical point for me is that being gender non conforming is fine in itself. There is no need to be trans. You can just be yourself but gender non conforming. I am very happy as an adult being me.

I have found this recent video by a young autistic woman who is now detransitioning very helpful. She covers a lot of relevant points very articulately:

Thanks Don Quixote. I will explore. Mermaids are quite adept at wild claims hut not committing them to paper! Im challenging local camhs use of mermaids as a recommended resource so figured like that would be gold