Daily mail article - Parents are encouraging children as young as three to change gender without consulting specialists, experts warn

[EweSurname]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7258767/Parents-encouraging-children-young-three-change-gender-without-consulting-specialists.html

The NHS's top psychologist for transgender children warned yesterday of a major increase in the trend, saying parents are researching the subject online and taking advice from internet forums and transgender lobby groups.

The warning comes as the latest figures show the number of referrals to England's only specialist clinic for children has almost doubled in four years.

Last year 2,590 children were referred to the Gender Identity Development Service. Ten were aged three and four, and dozens more were of primary school age.

Three and four year olds. Wtf.

Many 'socially transition' at a younger age – but Dr Wren warned that doing so prior to puberty can lead to problems when the child is hit by a 'wall of reality' as their body starts to change.

She said: 'We think that is setting up problems for later. There is no magic solution.

'Some families think the social transition means it is all going to be fine, but it is much more complicated.

'We are anxious that there's some magical thinking that they won't really go through puberty. I'm not condemning these parents, but I think there's much more to learn.'

Dr Polly Carmichael, director of the Gender Identity Development Service, added: 'There are some families where they will talk about it being a hate crime if you get the pronoun wrong with a very young child who has made a social transition.

'There are internet forums where parents talk and, if a parent has a good experience of something, other parents will follow. Parents do want the best for their kids.'

Gay man on line. His teacher friend (primary school) - has to follow government directive to be on the look out for children aged 4 upwards showing any sign of needing to go through process of transitioning. Teacher terrified of losing her job if she doesn't comply.

He was very angry with her and said she sounded like a clone of herself. Like she'd been radicalised. Wish I'd heard the whole segment. Think it is actually over now.

What signs ffs.

There are male make up artists, ballet dancers, gymnasts etc

What they are looking for then is a kid who has been bullied by the other kids into admitting they are a girl cos hes been told by all the other kids he has to be a girl as boys dont do this.

How can they possibly do that in good conscience

I wonder how much of this comes from gender disappointment.

I suspect some of it’s down to homophobia too.
Parents who see a child who’s not conforming to gender norms (as with the example of a boy pretending to be a princess upthread), and who are more comfortable with the idea of a transgender child than the idea of a gay one.

I do 'get' sex disappointment to an extent. I have a son and a daughter and while I love them quite equally the relationships are different. It isn't necessarily about having a girl to dress up or boy to play football with. Which isn't to say that's never the case, and as far as I'm aware the reasons for not sexing children in scans to prevent abortion are more complex and relate to issues amongst particular cultural groups. I'm just not sure it is fair to assume all parents who wish for an opposite sex baby to the ones they already have are doing so out of an obsession with sexist stereotypes.

On the other hand I don't 'get' the eye rolling at the Daily Mail. Sure they publish some unpleasant guff, but they also pursued the Stephen Lawrence case when others didn't dare. And it isn't as if other newspapers are blameless bastions of virtue. The Guardian blamed sexual assault victims for their own attacks on the basis of 'owning mobile phones' and is advocating the most misogynistic ideology outside of ISIS after all.

No surprise to the reaction of some people to the articles

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-49020371

Wow ewe the TRA gunning for GIDS now. I can see how the disreputable doc would be happy if GIDS were not around - think of all the money if they have to go to her instead. It's terrifying.

Funny how the answer is always to criticise and make accusations about denying existences or killing children, over producing medical and psychological evidence backed up by legit studies and medical experts.

Instead it's always by people who's whole lively would fall apart if exposed.

This unbiased evidence should be easy to produce shouldnt it?

I work for an organization that employs over 8k people in a male dominated industry.

My mate is the diversity & inclusion manager & is very vocal On stem for women/girls. She ‘doesn’t buy in that gender nonsense’. She has 2 grandsons. When her granddaughter was born she bought an explosion of pink including for me those hated headbands so that ‘people will know she’s a girl’. Also ‘I love my grandsons but it’s different having a girl isnt it they’re so much gentler’

I get that she’s excited, any new baby is lovely but ffs there’s no hope.

Just to be slightly off topic on the sex preference. I was shocked at how strongly I wanted a girl.

It was nothing to do with wanting to be girly (I am not)

In my case it was probably influenced subconsciously by the male violence in my family and the chance to break the cycle of dysfunctional mother daughter relationships which ran in my family.

What was the briefing that has produced all these similar reports? Who organised it - was it a Gids press conference?

There doesn't seem to be any new information but it suggests quite a change of tone, eg comparing how polly carmichael was on women's hour with stephan d a (I think it was her), and the info that has come out showing that mermaids had been influencing Gids (the data leak emails I think). What's changed?

The GIDS press conference, stressing how cautious they are, might be a pre-emptive strike because in anticipation of a very negative news story to break shortly ...

Lily Maynard
‏*@LilyLilyMaynard*
BBC briefing journalists- and acknowledging that ‘transgender kids’ are actually ‘children with gender identity issues’. (They changed their headline) What next? Is the wall beginning to crumble?

Definitely a change of tone from the key people here. The mainstream media is mostly now prepared to publish GC articles ( with the usual exceptions of course) But why do we still have to hear older males bleat on about how great hormones are for under age children?

But why do we still have to hear older males bleat on about how great hormones are for under age children

Especially from ones who would not be who they are or where they are today if they had transitioned fully as children.

It must be so hurtful for the kids to read in the papers and hear on the radio how their parent wishes they had had the option to do something as a child that would have meant that the kids would never even be here now.

dolorsit I had the opposite reaction to the same problem. Male violence in and out of home left me terrified at the prospect of having a girl. I lost sleep over it. I did have a girl and I still worry but I am less scared now. I know she has tools I didn't have (stable, loving, abuse free home) and I'm optimistic that will help her navigate life outside the home much better than I did.

"I know she has tools I didn't have (stable, loving, abuse free home)"

you broke the cycle :).

GIDS recently published this.
gids.nhs.uk/our-early-intervention-study

Here is a comment from an endocrinologist on one of the studies they used to back up their assertion that puberty blockers are harmless: "This is a great example of fudging your results. They try to frame this in a positive light by saying that bone density did not decline. But what they are not telling you is that it did not increase as expected."
twitter.com/MLaidlawMD/status/1058199365347471360

GIDS have been under more scrutiny recently, and perhaps they are being forced to look at the scientific evidence around the treatments they are using in their experimentation on children.
www.transgendertrend.com/tavistock-experiment-puberty-blockers/

I've never understood the need to push what works for you onto others. It's like when people try to convert you to their religion, why can't people just be happy themselves and leave others to find their own path to self acceptance.

Pushing transitioning on children age 3/4 is crazy. Everyone likes different things, clothes, shoes, colours, hairstyles, music it's normal, it doesn't mean your the wrong sex.

On gender disappointment, I'm currently expecting another baby and won't find out the sex until birth. I already have a son and no desire to buy pink things, dresses or headbands particularly, although if I could choose I would have a daughter next. I'd still dress the baby comfortably rather than as a mini adult. If I have another son I will love him as much as I love my brilliant boy I have already. I have never done the blue is for boys things and we have a mix of toys in neutral or brights.

You just can't push things on kids to conform. My son hates football at the moment, but doesn't mean he's the wrong sex. He will find his way to things he enjoys.

A transgender four year old is like a vegan cat. We all know who’s making the choices here.
“I’m not condemning the parents.” I bloody well am.

Meh, it’s the Daily Mail!

And yet one of the only media outlets reporting on these horrors.

A transgender four year old is like a vegan cat.

That's a fucking priceless analogy.

That's a fucking priceless analogy.

It is, isn't it?

My mate is the diversity & inclusion manager & is very vocal On stem for women/girls. She ‘doesn’t buy in that gender nonsense’. She has 2 grandsons. When her granddaughter was born she bought an explosion of pink including for me those hated headbands so that ‘people will know she’s a girl’. Also ‘I love my grandsons but it’s different having a girl isnt it they’re so much gentler’

I actually dont get the issue with people worrying about babies being misidentified anyway. Why it sends people into a blind rage I dont know. The baby doesn't even sodding care.

Usually people are just being nice. "Oh isnt he lovely" kind of thing.

I wonder how many of the parents transitioning their non-conforming child have accessed Mumsnet? How many have got all their info and support from the likes of Mermaids?

Any who started out could easily be sent into by the threats (from their support group!) of their child suiciding.

Perhaps the apparent enthusiasm from these parents is actually desperation.