Changing Room Silliness In A Primark Store

[SunsetBeetch]

This twitter thread makes me want to tear my hair out. Wtf?! I hope the tweeter gets some answers.

twitter.com/claireOT/status/1151574652231311362?s=19

I just had a fascinating conversation @Primark. The assistant at the entrance to the female changing room was a man. I said to him: “this seems unusual, is it considered ok to place a male (customer assistant) in this role?”

He responded “sure. All our changing rooms are now unisex, and male and female assistants are available everywhere”
Is this correct, @Primark?

I checked “are you saying that men can choose to enter this changing room, where teenaged girls are trying on clothes?”
He replied “no, not if they want to try on ‘men’s clothes’” @Primark

I asked “so if they want to try on an item from the women’s department, they can enter the changing rooms, where teenaged girls are in a state of undress?” @primark

“Yes” he replied. “If they want to wear women’s clothes, they can come in. Not if they’re the husbands or boyfriends or Dads of girls that are changing. And not, you know, getting dressed up for a Stag Do” @Primark

“So staff are left to decide which men are bringing clothes into here because they want to be with their daughters, or because it’s funny, and stop them. But men that are not related, and bringing clothes in, and it’s not funny, they’re allowed?” @primark

“So staff are expected to examine the internal motivation of a man, when he attempts to enter here, and let some through, and refuse others? This seems like a silly and dangerous rule, to me” @Primark

I asked “Do @Primark know how much business they will lose, when women realise that their daughters cannot be kept safe in these changing rooms, and stop them from shopping here?” I’d love to know the answer to this question

I’ve been to several shops with unisex changing rooms. You change in a cubicle with a door or curtain. There’s a staff member at the entrance. What do you think is going to happen? If a young child was going in a parent would go in too. If a teen was going in they can take care of themselves. If there was someone causing problems there’s a staff member there to deal with it. I doubt they’re going to lose business as it’s not most peoples default thought that man equals harm.

it’s not most peoples default thought that man equals harm.

No but it is peoples default thought that they can change clothes in single sex spaces. Otherwise why do we have segregated changing rooms at gym, pools, schools etc?

Men could place cameras, take pictures, assault women, they're not always attended

Well the last time I used an unisex changing room a man opened the curtain on me.

The poor dear failed to spot the two empty cubicles with the curtains pulled back which he had walked past to get to mine.

I’m not sure teens can “take care of themselves” Pipandmum especially in the current climate where they are likely to get “bigot” or “terf” shouted at them if they question why a 40 year person led with stubble is asking them to help him zip them up.

When men stop raping and murdering women and girls we’ll stop seeing them as potential harm.

...and are we also going to ignore that most changing rooms are badly designed with doors and curtains with cracks at the side, at the best of time. Without a male with a camera/mirror/raging erection next door.

It seems @Primark lawyers needs to study the UK Equality Act in full, especially Schedule 3, sections 26, 27 ans 28 plus their associated Explanatory Notes, since @Primark is acting in breach of UK Equaltiy Act 2010:

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/schedule/3

Relevant Explanatory Notes:

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/notes/division/3/16/20/7

Para 738 "These exceptions would allow separate male and female changing rooms to be provided in a department store;"

Well the last time I used an unisex changing room a man opened the curtain on me.

Yep, this happened to me in Gap - there isn't always an attendant there.

And so, it seems that @UKGap is also acting in breach of UK Equality Act 2010.

@UKGap lawyers: check UK Equality Act 2010 in full, especially Schedule 3, sections 26, 27 and 28 plus their associated Explanatory Notes:

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/schedule/3

Relevant Explanatory Notes:

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/notes/division/3/16/20/7

Para 738 "These exceptions would allow separate male and female changing rooms to be provided in a department store"

It seems that @Primark and @UKGap may have rendered themselves open to litigation on the grounds of sex discrimination by willfully removing previously sex-segregated spaces.

Are @Primark and @UKGap even aware of UK law?

Jacky what would we be without you.

Jacky what would we be without you.

Maybe only a little less informed about relevant UK law here

But surely stores don't have to operate a single sex policy for changing rooms? I think they're mad not to, I won't use mixed sex changing rooms but if a store thinks that's the way to go, I imagine that's not unlawful in itself. Or is that wrong?

But surely stores don't have to operate a single sex policy for changing rooms? I think they're mad not to, I won't use mixed sex changing rooms but if a store thinks that's the way to go, I imagine that's not unlawful in itself. Or is that wrong?

They leave themselves in the position of a charge via the Harassment clauses in UK Equality Act 2010. They also leave themselves in the position of facilitating charges via the Sexual Offences Act 2003.

Either way, it is not a positive position for any business operating in the UK to ignore the fullest extent of the protective provisions in the UK Equality Act 2010 for women and children.

The alternative is to view such businesses as acting against the interests of women and children.

The specificity of the "logic" of the policy is what I find a bit bizarre. Like (assuming the assistant was correct) they have actually questioned "hmm, what if..." for various scenarios... and this is what they considered the correct result. That the line must be drawn according to what...department the clothes come from...

Hello Pipandmum

www.google.com/amp/s/metro.co.uk/2017/02/10/mum-catches-man-filming-her-trying-on-bras-in-asda-changing-rooms-6439676/amp/

www.google.com/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/news/uk/730049/Voyeur-filmed-woman-changing-room-claimed-cleaning-skirting-board/amp

Of course NAMALT.
Could I ask your opinion on swimming pools having gender neutral changing rooms?
Can teenage girls look after themselves in that situation too?

That the line must be drawn according to what ... department the clothes come from...

Yup! And given that so-called "gender identity" has zero meaning in any UK law this is blatant disregard of the protective provisions for women and children contained within the Equality Act 2010.

Such businesses seem to be unaware of the definitions in the Equality Act 2010:

woman = a female of any age [ie: including female children which, in law, means those aged under 18 years]

man = a male of any age [ie: including male children which, in law, means those aged under 18 years]

See also the GRA 2004 which is explicit about the adult age limit being 18 years and beyond:

1 Applications
(1) A person of either gender who is aged at least 18 may make an application for
a gender recognition certificate on the basis of—
(a) living in the other gender, or
(b) having changed gender under the law of a country or territory outside the United Kingdom

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2004/7/section/1

Beyond this neither "transgender", gender identity", "gender" nor "non-binary" has any meaning / definition in any current UK statute.

That's unbearably dumb. Changing rooms segregated by whether the clothes are pink or blue rather than whether the people wearing them are men or women? Have everyone's brains fallen out?

I tried on a few bras in Primark last week and was surprised myself to see a young man (late teens/ early 20s) manning the changing room. He looked utterly mortified. But I did think that a teenage girl would have felt very uncomfortable going past him with an arm full of bras!

When men stop raping and murdering women and girls we’ll stop seeing them as potential harm

Indeed.

Or when women & girls are invested with magical powers so that we can distinguish the men who intend to rape/abuse/murder from the men who don't before they rape/abuse/murder us.

If a teen was going in they can take care of themselves

Frankly, I know I couldn't have 'taken care' of myself if confronted with a man in a women's changing room when I was 15. I"m not even sure that at 4 times that age, I would be able to challenge a man in a woman's changing room.

So, if the Primark changing rooms are separating people on the basis of which department they are picking up the clothes from.....does that mean if I want to try on a pair of men's jeans I need to go in the male changing rooms? (I do often buy clothes from the men's section because I'm too big for most of the lady clothes).

Should I try that next time? Not sure I'd want to tbh.

I was in Topshop in Leeds 6months ago and a bearded man was sat on a sofa with his phone pointing towards a changing room 2 girls were larking around in. They were coming in and out in various silly outfits- a bikini with a fur coat etc and he was blatantly filming them. I told the staff member, a young Muslim woman, and she looked teary and couldn't meet my eye. I found the manger and he said there was nothing he could do. It's appalling.

Lawyers for @Topshop maybe need to study in forensic detail the UK Equality Act 2010, including Schedule 3, sections 26, 27 and 28 and their associated Explanatory Notes.

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/schedule/3/part/7

and the Explanatory Notes:

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/notes/division/3/16/20/7

[Beyond all this perhaps all these lawyers actually need to study the UK Equality Act 2010 in its entirety?]

it’s not most peoples default thought that man equals harm.

no its nothing to do with really. Put simply changing facilities are SEX segregated for a reason, privacy and dignity. And it makes a mockery if "some" men are allowed to break this arrangement.

Pipandmum

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3639807-Fancy-sharing-a-changing-room-toilet-with-this-charmer

Ongoing thread and more recent than one of my examples, one of my examples was from before all these changing rooms start becoming unisex. So if it happened then what happens now? It makes it easier for perverts to access women and children.