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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Changing Room Silliness In A Primark Store

61 replies

SunsetBeetch · 17/07/2019 21:06

This twitter thread makes me want to tear my hair out. Wtf?! I hope the tweeter gets some answers.

twitter.com/claireOT/status/1151574652231311362?s=19

I just had a fascinating conversation @Primark. The assistant at the entrance to the female changing room was a man. I said to him: “this seems unusual, is it considered ok to place a male (customer assistant) in this role?”

He responded “sure. All our changing rooms are now unisex, and male and female assistants are available everywhere”
Is this correct, @Primark?

I checked “are you saying that men can choose to enter this changing room, where teenaged girls are trying on clothes?”
He replied “no, not if they want to try on ‘men’s clothes’” @Primark

I asked “so if they want to try on an item from the women’s department, they can enter the changing rooms, where teenaged girls are in a state of undress?” @primark

“Yes” he replied. “If they want to wear women’s clothes, they can come in. Not if they’re the husbands or boyfriends or Dads of girls that are changing. And not, you know, getting dressed up for a Stag Do” @Primark

“So staff are left to decide which men are bringing clothes into here because they want to be with their daughters, or because it’s funny, and stop them. But men that are not related, and bringing clothes in, and it’s not funny, they’re allowed?” @primark

“So staff are expected to examine the internal motivation of a man, when he attempts to enter here, and let some through, and refuse others? This seems like a silly and dangerous rule, to me” @Primark

I asked “Do @Primark know how much business they will lose, when women realise that their daughters cannot be kept safe in these changing rooms, and stop them from shopping here?” I’d love to know the answer to this question

OP posts:
LassOfFyvie · 17/07/2019 23:47

I told the staff member, a young Muslim woman, and she looked teary and couldn't meet my eye. I found the manger and he said there was nothing he could do. It's appalling

The manager didn't need to be backed up by the Equally Act. He had every right to ask this man to put his phone away.

Original poster
SunsetBeetch · 17/07/2019 23:50

Sarahjconnor

I was in Topshop in Leeds 6months ago and a bearded man was sat on a sofa with his phone pointing towards a changing room 2 girls were larking around in. They were coming in and out in various silly outfits- a bikini with a fur coat etc and he was blatantly filming them. I told the staff member, a young Muslim woman, and she looked teary and couldn't meet my eye. I found the manger and he said there was nothing he could do. It's appalling..

WTAF. It's also appalling that the staff know it's wrong, but can't do anything about it. I'd hate to be in their position (also the embarrassed young man manning the women's changing room).

What an absolute shit show.

OP posts:
Datun · 18/07/2019 00:03

jacky - If they are letting in some men (those trying on women's clothes), but not others, isn't that discrimination on the basis of sex?

OneEndedStick · 18/07/2019 00:17

Thing is, even if women did have a sincerity perception radar, so that we could always tell the True Innocent Trans males from the ones who just get kicks from imposing their presence on women in female areas, it wouldn't make a spot of difference because men have no fucks to give for what we say anyhow. They'll either not believe us, or they'll say we shouldn't be believed.

Just like now, when nothing we say, no evidence we present, is "valid" enough... apparently.. to warrant accepting that may be we have a point. Because men know the "real truth" and the "real reason" we say anything at any given time.

WomanBornNotWorn · 18/07/2019 12:02

I had first hand reminder a few months back that at my age I'm still not able to take care of myself when frightened by a predatory man. What are teen girls supposed to do ... ?

Deathraystare · 18/07/2019 12:54

I found the manger and he said there was nothing he could do. It's appalling.

I would have asked loudly why he was doing it and did he not know it looked pervy - filming yoiung girls like that (even if they were ok with it it is still not on).

Childrenofthestones · 18/07/2019 13:07

It's the same in M&S now.
Having said that, prior to the new rules , I've had a women whip the curtain open on me in M&S men's changing facilities while looking for her husband to give him some cords to try on. No apology, just a look of irritation because I wasn't George.
The new rules just give pervs and arseholes free rein.

Siameasy · 18/07/2019 13:42

I don’t like this, the Primark I go to has curtains and there’s always a gap at the side.

Datun · 18/07/2019 14:10

I don’t like this, the Primark I go to has curtains and there’s always a gap at the side.

I mean, apart from anything else, how bloody hard is it to get curtains that fit. It's the easiest thing in the world. Lots of rings, lots of material, not difficult.

FeministCat · 18/07/2019 14:15

If a teen was going in they can take care of themselves.

Really? How is a young teenage girl going to “take care of (themselves)” against an adult male?

sillysmiles · 18/07/2019 14:16

it’s not most peoples default thought that man equals harm.

I agree. Most people do not think of men = harm. But most men respect single sex spaces and don't feel the need to make people uncomfortable there.
The problem lies with the percentage of men that are voyeuristic, pervs, unsavory and just predatory.

FeministCat · 18/07/2019 14:21

I am just thinking back when I was a teenage girl - 5’0”-5’4”, 80-100lbs. I could not even defend myself against my teenage boy rapist or any gropers in public space who weren’t much bigger than me, not sure how Pipandmum proposes teenage girls take care of themselves against men 2x plus the size of a teenage girl - taller, stronger, and just bigger.

deydododatdodontdeydo · 18/07/2019 14:22

I found the manger and he said there was nothing he could do. It's appalling..

I don't believe there's nothing they can do.
The shop is private property, they can ask members of the public to leave for any reason whatsoever.
What's the man going to do, take the shop to court for not allowing him to film teenage girls? He has no right to film on private property anyway.
Sounds like weak management more than anything else.

Siameasy · 18/07/2019 15:56

It’s not necessarily to do just with men harming women-it’s privacy and dignity for both sexes. And to avoid situations where someone could inadvertently cause offence or an allegation could be made. It’s to protect everyone.
We have a unisex communal changing room at work. We had to cordon bits off for me (the sole female). This is as much for the blokes’ embarrassment (probably more so actually) than mine. And I know these people - they’re not strangers
The other day I went for a sports massage and I asked for a female. Their response was of course they would’ve automatically allocated me a female
everyone knows why the sexes are segregated in certain situations and I believe almost everyone (including most men) want it so

User10fuckingmillion · 18/07/2019 16:02

It really depends though doesn’t it? If they’re properly maintained changing rooms without a bloody two foot gap under the door and with lockable doors I think unisex is fine. Unfortunately most chanting rooms aren’t like this.

User10fuckingmillion · 18/07/2019 16:02

*changing

Pota2 · 18/07/2019 16:04

Surely it doesn’t matter if there is a male attendant for a female changing room? I have seen that so many times for years and years. The attendant will not see you undressed or anything. And it’s a clothes shop- not a hospital- they will put whoever is on the rota on there and there is virtually never any need at all to do anything other than hand the clothes back to the assistant. As for any men entering, that’s a bit different but if there are proper cubicles, it’s not quite the drama this person on Twitter is making it out to be.

User10fuckingmillion · 18/07/2019 16:04

Communal unisex changing rooms sound fucking horrific Siameasy
Shock

OrchidInTheSun · 18/07/2019 16:20

Did you actually bother reading the thread Pota? Because if you did, you appear to have comprehension skills; if not, why bother posting?

Pota2 · 18/07/2019 16:32

Yes, I read the twitter thread that was referenced in the OP. It begins with questioning why there is a male attendant outside a female changing room.

Somersetlady · 18/07/2019 16:35

Sadly @PerrysWinkle our new built council swimming pool decided in their wisdom to have ‘family changing’ which is a free for all in showers and cubicles.

Apollo440 · 18/07/2019 16:42

The male attendant isn't really an issue unless they expect to be popping into the changing room. The fact that any man can enter as long as they are carrying a female item of clothing strikes me as a big fat NO. In fact although they say that men carrying male clothing won't be allowed in, that is breaking the equalities act. If you allow any males in you MUST allow all or it is discrimination (like only allowing white men in).

Lawlsie1976 · 18/07/2019 17:09

@Sarahjconnor "I was in Topshop in Leeds 6months ago and a bearded man was sat on a sofa with his phone pointing towards a changing room 2 girls were larking around in. They were coming in and out in various silly outfits- a bikini with a fur coat etc and he was blatantly filming them. I told the staff member, a young Muslim woman, and she looked teary and couldn't meet my eye. I found the manger and he said there was nothing he could do. It's appalling."

There is something they can do. They can stand in front of him and prevent him from filming. There is nothing in the Trans Must Be Obeyed law that says men get to film teenage girls in changing rooms!

Datun · 18/07/2019 17:17

It's absolute nonsense.

Some bloke scoops up a frock and demands entry. What are they going to say? How would it actually play out, if it went to a tribunal?

What is the difference between some bloke scooping up a frock to come and look at the girls changing, and some bloke scooping up a frock to change with the girls?

Ffs. I've actually got a headache today because of all the nonsense we're supposed to listen to