Being a student when you're Fed Up With This Shit

[IMissGluten]

Have just finished my second year at what feels like the world's wokest university and am pissed off at the prospect of yet another year buttoning my lip about gender shite. I go to a women's college which, the year after I leave, is going mixed (though technically it was mixed anyway as they announced about a year ago that they'd accept anyone describing themselves as a woman), and although I didn't choose it because it was a women's college, I've enjoyed being in a female environment. It's pretty much the only female environment left, because every event, society, whatever, that in the past would've been for women, is now for "women and non-binary". Why?! Including people who call themselves non-binary isn't even necessary to placate the TWAW lot. They're not women, according to them. So why invite them?

It seems the new gender orthodoxy has even been taken up by non-students; when I've made the odd irritated comment, I've been argued against. I do know of one department member who bravely signed a letter protesting a student union publication decrying "TERFs" but I don't have anything to do with her. And I know of one other student who feels how I do but she's also quite right-wing and we agree on little else. So I feel very alone — I'm planning on joining the radical feminist society but TBH I'm not utterly sure I'd describe myself that way.

The then-upcoming decision on allowing self-declared women into college was almost the sole topic of conversation in the one and only college LGBT society meeting I attended. Eight or so gay and bi women sitting around talking about how to bully the college into accepting male students. Fucksake.

I don't even know what answer I want to this. Just… the loss of female spaces, the silent pressure to stay quiet about the nature of reality, the posters and stickers everywhere saying TWAW and informing you that a man in the ladies' loos absolutely belongs there and you're a prejudiced bigot if you even think otherwise… it's bloody annoying.

Write a book.

The backlash is coming. Talk to the fellows, off the record if you have to. Talk to the big donors - If you're where I think you are, they gave money to a women's college not a mixed one. of course they may not agree with you, I'm not saying everyone will. If you publish at the right moment you'll have a career.

Have you got any feminist groups you could join? You could start a GC group with fellow students but meet off campus. It sounds like a lovely place to learn, very sad that this will change but great that you benefited from it before it became mixed sex.

You're amongst friends here OP. We're all concerned at what is happening in universities in particular and the bullying and silencing of young women..

On the quiet, countless people - young and old - can see what is happening and don't agree with this shit - they comply and support because this is being implemented through fear and intimidation - nothing else.
I see it like being in a school where there's a group of bullies that strut the corridors, intimidating others and insisting on complete compliance. Others keep quiet through fear, but they see the bullying and loathe the bullies and once the bullies are finally challenged / removed, then they will speak up. It's just at the moment the male bullies are in control.

And I know of one other student who feels how I do but she's also quite right-wing and we agree on little else.

Hi.

I know at least a couple of other postgrads who feel the same way, although not strongly enough to do anything about it. Just the common-sense position that self-ID shouldn't be enough to get you into a women's college.

I actually think it would be a really interesting project to conduct interviews with students who chose the college because it's a women's college. An end-of-an-era sort of thing. I've read the books about the beginning of the college and how important it was in the 1960s, and think it's a real shame that the space is being lost.

It's a couple of the fellows I was thinking of when I mentioned speaking to non-students — there might, perhaps, be a few GC ones I haven't spoken to, but I wouldn't blame them if they were reticent about it.

I suspect talking to fellows and donors (such as they are) would change nothing — the new leadership seems very keen to make a mark, and all the changes have passed through all stages barring actual implementation. They changed other entry requirements at the same time and feeling among the students is that it was unnecessary to overhaul everything (despite the statements made publicly that imply the student body and everyone else are enthusiastically approving of the changes). But all student "consultation" was purely for show.

I'd consider writing a book but my uni workload for the next year is insane 😂

Oh heck, other replies arrived while I was typing a response to Temporary!

OhHolyJesus, there is a radical feminist group I'm planning to join, but not sure how much I'll be able to participate as I'm in my final year. But I'm looking forward to meeting them.

Truth — I'm a mature student, which doesn't always help with that sense of not quite fitting in! But yes; I feel there are probably quite a few students, even among the younger ones, who don't particularly appreciate the absolutist gender dogma. But they keep quiet about it, I think.

Spinster — interesting it's the postgrads; is that just because those are the people you know, maybe, or perhaps because they're older?

It would be an interesting project, I agree. I know a couple who did, one of whom was disappointed it wasn't more segregated, cause she was hoping she could slob around the house without her hijab 😂

One thing that irritated a lot of the students during the "consultation" was the words "job done", used repeatedly, in reference to the aim of improving women's opportunities for higher education. My arse.

Start your own group outside of campus environment. A friend of mine did just that. Its only a small group right now but it'sa breath of fresh air. They cant stop us!

By "mature student", BTW, I mean, like, really mature… even among mature students, most are in their early twenties, and I'm… not

northern, you mean, like, for both local residents and students? It's not a campus university, and a lot of student groups meet in pubs etc. anyway.

I hope this shite has passed over by the time my daughter gets to uni. She's 12 now and all my fingers are crossed.

We went for a run together yesterday and we talked about what's gender and what's sex. In a nutshell, stereotypes vs biological reality. I'm priming her now for the idiocy she's going to have to listen to.

A little of both, I think. My social circle is mainly postgrads, but I also think women who are that bit older are more likely to appreciate women-only spaces, and less likely to accept the more absurd parts of genderist dogma in order to be 'nice'.

I was irritated by the 'job done' sentiment, too. That and the assertion that there's no need for a mature-age college because every 18-year-old now has the opportunity to go to university, which just seemed cluelessly classist to me.

I'm lucky in that I am a mature student doing a part time professional course in a mixed institution so all students are older so less of the gender bullshit. One (male) student is very openly gender critical when we chat outwith class, and another (female) made openly disparaging remarks about gender one day in class. I was worried about someone making a complaint about her, but luckily it never happened.

The one piece of wokeness was being told to ask clients their gender identity and preferred pronouns, something I have no intention of doing.

I did briefly consider joining the student association, but due to practical reasons it would not be viable.

I do know they have self ID of sex/gender on ID cards, one student in my daughter's class got hysterical when they turned up for an exam, showed male ID and the invigilator questioned whether boys name was actually a boy as they were wearing a skirt and had pink hair. A tutor also acted bemused when another "male" student needed to use the toilet frequently to deal with problem periods.

Unfortunately you can't question in this environment, I know the disciplinary process is triggered by any complaint so it is best to just internally roll your eyes and get on with it.

I do understand you isolation, it does seem the rad fem society might be the only place you can find solidarity. It is also likely they would be the ones to challenge allowing men in.

2cats, it sounds like she's at least thinking critically about this stuff, which is good.

@IMissGluten

Well yes thats what my friend did. Particularly if you are not sure how many students well get involved at first. Primarilly for students but a couple of residents come along now. It's only in early days so far. But it's really up to you what you want to do. If it's not a campus Uni then thats an ideal situation.

Good luck!

I'd consider writing a book but my uni workload for the next year is insane 😂

Yeah never mind that. This is more important.

I wonder if you are that particular individual, Spinster… I know she's an MNer I'm quite an extreme leftie liberal, which is probably pretty off-putting

And yes, classist, and also ableist — I'm a mature student thanks to longterm illness that began in my teens and delayed my education. And sexist — on the Access course I took before university, a good chunk of the women were returners to education who'd had children young, which wouldn't prevent a male in that situation from doing his A levels and buggering off to uni.

Ginger, great that people are speaking out on your course! I think you're right; a professional course would maybe have an older, perhaps more experienced bunch on it.

Sounds like a great little group northern — I'm going to try the radfems for now, I think, partly because I'm going to be so busy with my uni work this next year (argh, finals)!

If you are the university I think you must be at, then join the radical feminist group. They have exciting things planned for next year and area mixture of under and postgrads plus have also include non student women in their group meetings. You will find like minded people.

Ounce please try telling that to my Director of Studies…

(Actually, try telling anything to my Director of Studies…)

Yotam, that sounds like a great mix 😀

Yotam, I probably am at the university you think I'm at, but I thought that since the only relevant aspect is that it's a collegiate uni, and that that was already clear from what I posted, I probably didn't need to specify.

You may need a reference from the uni. so keep your head down and get your degree imo.

Fair point just.

I know she's an MNer I'm quite an extreme leftie liberal, which is probably pretty off-putting

Not at all. I'm 95% sure we do know each other. I'm an economically centre-right, socially libertarian type. I disagree with most lefties on lots of things, but the only ones who annoy me are the ones who think that everyone who disagrees with them politically must be evil, and the ones who think that disagreement is 'literal violence'. Which, if you are who I think you are, is definitely not you! One of the nice things about meeting people at university is the diversity of political views.

Unfortunately I'll be leaving the university next week - and moving for my PhD to a London university also known for wokeness and no-platforming. There's no escaping it at the better-known institutions, I think.

Well, if you're who I think you are, Spinster, and I'm who you think I am, then I'm glad my leftieness isn't that offputting I'm a cultural liberal, and waver around between social democrat, democratic socialist, social liberal and liberal socialist... and also object to being told I must believe in gendered innerness and defer to demands that I make concessions for people according to what they claim theirs is.

I tend to avoid political discussions in real life generally, but particularly with people I might have significantly different views to, simply because face-to-face I'm often pretty incoherent in political discussions and get frustrated with myself that I can't express what I mean (I have ASD, which might be a factor...). So I stick to other topics, and would avoid extensive discussion of GC views with someone who I know has other political views very different to mine, because that discussion is likely to touch on or lead to other aspects of politics, and I don't want to spend all day being annoyed with myself! I do my political discussion and debate online, mostly, though I'll discuss some political stuff in person if it's not likely to lead to major areas of significant disagreement where there's little chance of either side persuading the other. I do like to read and hear opposing viewpoints, but it's much easier in text, and with someone you know you won't be sitting opposite at dinnertime

Good luck at UniversityNoPlatformLondon :)

You'll still be a member of the university and of college once you graduate. Loads of people hang around.... .

I wasn't a mature student, but doing my M.A. (at another university) after a year or so's break, I really felt that the undergrads were really young. If you're a mature student, no wonder you're feeling isolated. Bon courage, dear. You are a thinking woman, and you have a place at the College of Mumsnet.