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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Help needed please. Talking to my Conservative MP about self id.

22 replies

finnmcool · 11/07/2019 15:14

Will you lovely, informed women help me out please?

I've requested a meeting with my Conservative MP about self id and the impact on women and girls.

I want to ask about changing rooms, (all gyms in my Borough accept self identifying males in women's changing rooms) hostels, girl guides, NSPCC, why Stonewall has so much power, the cotton ceiling and what the hell Maria Miller and Penny Mourdant were thinking.

Do I need to hit him with statistics, or do I just speak as a (very angry/frustrated) woman?

I'm not really sure of the best way to articulate myself.

Any guidance and help will be gratefully recieved.

Thank you in advance.

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FermatsTheorem · 11/07/2019 16:24

I'd go for the "big three" which I think a Conservative would be sympathetic with. Try to meet him on his own ground.

Women's prisons - the Karen White debacle. Remind him of the article in last week's Telegraph stating that 1 in 50 prisoners in the male estate identifies as trans (rising to 1 in 10 for members of the Traveller community). Are they all trans? If not, if some of them are clearly telling porky pies in order to get what they perceive of as a cushier time in prison/wanting to be transferred to a women's prison to get at a literally captive pool of women potential victims, then doesn't this rather blow self-ID out the water?

Women's sport - reference Martina Navratilova (including that she used to be coached by Renee Richards, so hardly a "transphobe", and that Richards themself has said if they'd transitioned in their prime, they'd have been unbeatable), Sharron Davies (and Sharron's experience while competing of being beaten by women on steroids). Not just fairness, and who's on the olympic podium, but safety. England won the women's Six Nations rugby this year - what happens in the amateur game if 6'3", 16 stone biologically male individuals can "identify their way onto women's teams? (Spinal injuries would be my answer).

Finally safeguarding children - there's been an absolute explosion in girls identifying as trans, and a high co-morbidity with autism, past sexual abuse and trauma. In other words, while some may be "genuinely trans", many are in fact using this as a coping mechanism to hide from past abuse/ escape from a Kardashian, Love Island - driven hyper sexualised culture which sees "real women" as silicone enhanced barbie dolls. Some of these girls are already starting to detransition - but after mutilating double mastectomies, and having been left sterile by cross sex hormones. Former clinicians at the Tavistock Clinic have tried to blow the whistle on this one (Times articles).

finnmcool · 11/07/2019 16:38

Thank you so much Fermats
That's a good point about meeting him on his own ground.
Thank you for your help and guidance notes, I really do appreciate it.

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Lysistrataknowsherstuff · 11/07/2019 16:43

I wrote to my Tory MP rather than actually see him in person. I hit him with prisons and statistics on sex offenders in self id-ing prisoners, safeguarding children and women's sports. As he's extremely right-wing and not exactly known for his pro-women stance, I wasn't sure what to expect.

He wrote back to say that he has been concerned for some time over the medicalisation of children, and the safety of women in prisons and elsewhere. He's now been declared 'anti-trans' by Prick News: as I said to DM, pretty sure he never expected to get his picture in there!

I think it depends on your area: self id would not go over well round here and so he's not going to lose votes over it (very rural area, no cities for miles).

FermatsTheorem · 11/07/2019 16:46

Will DM you some background if you want.

Times article - Governor quits 'blinkered' Tavistock Clinic
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/governor-quits-blinkered-tavistock-clinic-82db7wzq8?ni-statuscode=acsaz-307

Telegraph article - One in 50 prisoners identifies as transgender amid concerns inmates are attempting to secure prison perks
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/07/09/one-50-prisoners-identify-transsexual-first-figures-show-amid/

Chartreuser · 11/07/2019 16:48

I would be interested in lobbying my MP on this issue but would be good if anyone else wanted to come too. Could we do a post what areaish you are in and see if anyone else shares your MP and may want to come too.

I have to be careful re work hence lurking, sorry

MrsSnippyPants · 11/07/2019 16:52

Excellent advice so far.

I think one useful tactic is to do a bit of research on the person you are meeting with; do they have any hobbies or interests that are relevant? Do they have family members that take part in sport for instance, or are they or a family member on the board of a local charity or a school governor?

Have a bit of a dig around in their life and see if there is anything you can usefully reference; people often have their interest piqued if they can relate what you are talking about to something in their own life.

finnmcool · 11/07/2019 17:25

Thank you all for your really helpful input! 😊

Fermats I'm more than happy for you to DM me, thank you!

Lysis I live in a North London borough with a large Jewish, Muslim and Eastern European population. Self id will not go down well here.

Charteuser my MP is Matthew Offord. My area is big enough for me to not be worried about being outed.

MrsSnippy excellent point, thank you, I will do some research.

Thank you again, all of you for helping me out 😊

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OhHolyJesus · 11/07/2019 17:33

MoJ trans prison stays in this Medium article and the latest numbers from the Telegraph can be found on another thread.

medium.com/@evastanford/transwomen-sexual-offenders-a-closer-look-6c507d9e2414

(Basically the 125 is up to 139 now. I'm planning on submitting a freedom of info request on the breakdown of their crimes in coming weeks.)

CriticalCondition · 11/07/2019 17:46

I agree about doing a bit of research on his family situation. Tailor your remarks so he thinks about how self ID would impact the women he cares about.

Does he have a wife, daughters or an elderly mother? He may refer to his family on his website, lots of MPs do. Is his wife a business woman or a professional? Talk about Pips Bunce and business woman of the year type awards. Has he got young daughters? Talk about GG, toilets. Is his mother likely to need care? Talk about same sex HCPs.

AlwaysTawnyOwl · 11/07/2019 17:51

I am interested in lobbying my MP. I have already written to him. I would like to go with someone. He is John Howell, Conservative.

picklemepopcorn · 11/07/2019 17:56

It would be helpful to have a spreadsheet about which MPs need to be sounded out. I have a reasonably good relationship with mine, based on other issues. I've raised it briefly with another MP I know, who is sympathetic. Is someone quietly compiling the info, somewhere?

AlwaysComingHome · 11/07/2019 17:56

I’d go for unfairness in sport. Conservative don’t like the idea of anyone getting anything without working for it - unless they were born with it, and then it’s okay.

XXcstatic · 11/07/2019 18:01

Start with the absolute basics. Make sure he understands that at least 80% of TW have not been through any medical form of transition. Many people still believe that being trans = having had gender reassignment surgery, or at least hormones. Also make sure he understands that self-ID will mean that absolutely any man will be able to access facilities for women, as it would be impossible for anyone running the services to differentiate a TW from a man pretending to be trans. Good luck 😀

MacaroonMama · 11/07/2019 18:33

My Conservative male MP was great when I met him (18 months or so ago). I had sent quite a detailed letter out first, and he had it highlighted and annotated in front of him when we met. He was mainly curious, didn't know very much about it all, but also sympathetic, and could see the problems.

We have corresponded since so I feel it is a drip-feed and he is definitely getting the message.

Worth checking if your MP has special interests (prob on his website) and what Select Committees he is on, and so could influence.

Good luck!

Lysistrataknowsherstuff · 11/07/2019 18:55

Finn Do you know what his majority is? Call me cynical, but that's what's most important to many MPs when they declare one way or the other.

finnmcool · 12/07/2019 10:56

Based on all your advice, I had a look at his voting record. He voted against LGBT inclusive sex and relationship education in schools.

His voting record makes for unpleasant reading to be honest.

He got divorced last year.

I'm going to see what else I can find.
Thank you, you lovely bunch! 😊

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ChattyLion · 12/07/2019 15:26

OP this is really great that you have this meeting with your MP. Excellent! I’m just going to rehash some old posts if that is ok- sorry in advance for how long this is.

You could talk about the Webberleys and GMC action- lots of posts on FWR about those two.

You could make the point that we really need Commons Health and Social Care Select committee investigation on this area of kids being permanently medically hormonally and surgically transitioned in the absence of an evidence base. The need for more provision of well-funded psychological support needs to be supported by MPs as first option.

We need the UK Parliament to then take the results of that Select committee enquiry (they will be damning) and then for Parliament to make new laws requiring licensing approval from a regulatory body to be given before any person is legally permitted to medically, hormonally or surgically trans a child- by which I mean prescribing or providing blockers, hormones and surgery.

We need it to be illegal to get hormones or blockers these off the web in the UK or overseas or send them from overseas into the UK.

We need a public education campaign about the permanent, harmful effects of medical and hormonal and surgical interventions, while emphasising that children and young people’s mental health issues need to be better supported.

We don’t have the evidence to show that physical body modifications and harmful drugs are the answer to the pain of gender dysphoria that (some of the) kids attending NHS gender identity clinics are grappling with.

It absolutely shouldn’t be legal to allow parents or children to get these drugs off overseas doctors to consume in the UK. Why are the charities for trans kids not putting out proper health warnings?

Details of the Times front page in case anyone missed that: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3553935-Times-article-calls-to-end-transgender-experiment-on-children?pg=1&order=

Some threads referencing healthcare expert Professors like Susan Bewley and other medical colleagues publishing in medical journals on children and the permanent, unevidenced treatments being given to transition them:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3339177-Excellent-BMJ-Article-Responding-to-Previous-One-Featuring-ATH

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3410257-BMJ-article-We-need-research-to-explore-the-interplays-between-gender-identity-mental-health-and-neurodevelopmental-problems-sexual-orientation-autogynephilia-and-unpalatable-gender-roles

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3552430-Posible-answer-to-why-arent-more-doctors-speaking-up

Also evidence based medicine specialist Professor Carl Heneghan: speaking out via BBC interview: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3518188-BMJ-Prof-Carl-Heneghan-Evidence-Based-Medicine-Oxford-Panorama-Trans-Kids-Gender-affirming-hormone-in-children-and-adolescents-Evidence-review-concludes-There-are-significant-problems

We need Parliament to make new law to keep children and young people safe. We need a statutory regulated system, with licensing, case by case application before any child is transitioned medically and frequent regulatory inspection of all the clinical work in this area. Such that eg

-Parliament should make it illegal for anyone but a licensed doctor (whether NHS or private) to give a specific child or person aged under 25 years old, blockers or hormones or surgery except under licensed conditions after an independent case-by-case review process. This should be overseen by a regulator with statutory powers (ie legal powers given to them to licence, refuse or revoke a licence)

-Same for surgical egg retrieval and surgical sperm storage for kids and extracting and storing of prepubescent children’s and young people’s ovarian or testicular tissue where they are too young to have made mature eggs or sperm before their fertility is compromised by this treatment, before any of that is done to a child.

The law should also require that:

-clinicians who do this work must collect and share their outcomes data for all these patients from medical records so it can be properly researched.

-Binders for compressing the chest a. cause serious help problems and should be legally classed as a prescription-only medical product and again only be possible to provide legally under clinical supervision.

-Talking therapy must be made more available and there should be statutory maximum of waiting time for any young person to speak to a proper professional about these issues. (And for all other issues while we are at it- CAMHS in general needs to be properly supported and funded).

There should be proper government data collection so we know the full picture of what is being provided in both the public and private sector of practice.

-Criminal sanctions for those who break these laws.

-research funders should be encouraged to fund appropriate professional researchers to properly investigate patient outcomes and to run studies to follow up patients very long term in anonymised ways via medical records.

-And also to fund sociological research (like I think James Caspian wanted to do) interviewing de-transitioned people, medically, hormonally and surgically transitioned people, those currently transitioning via services, and young people and children who are having talking therapies only for starters.

-Research should also be funded to talk to family members so they can talk about their experiences of caring for children and young people in this situation.

-research with the clinical service providers to talk about their professional experience of doing this work.

A scandal is building here, so MPs should be calling for a select committee inquiry into this NOW. Then they could speak to:

-Young people, parents and detransitioned young people about their experiences.

-all of the medical and psychological professional societies and royal colleges, the BMA (the doctors’ trade union) and the regulators of medical or psychological practice like the General Medical Council (GMC) about what they are seeing happening to children and young people.

-Plus any organisation who supports research and evidence based medicine, especially in the NHS- like NICE, the NHS in each UK nation, but also the government departments in health, the medical and scientific research funders,
-Plus childrens’ and young people’s paediatric medical groups and bodies.

Your MP can contact this committee to ask that they look at this (as can anyone). Select committees look at the evidence from all sides which is very important in such a sensitive area:

Here’s how the Commons Health and Social care Select committee works:

www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/commons-select/health-and-social-care-committee/role/

Sarah Wollaston MP (Independent) is the committee Chair, she is a GP herself outside of Parliament. www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/commons-select/health-and-social-care-committee/membership/

This Chair has not accepted to date that this is an issue for her committee and she seems to see it as a lgbt rights issue when actually it’s a children’s health issue.

It’s completely unacceptable that all these questions have been raised in the media and by regulators like the GMC and these have not been looked into properly by an impartial body yet.

Anyone can email the Chair, to ask for an enquiry into this area:

www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/commons-select/health-and-social-care-committee/contact-us/

thanks, sorry for the massive post.

NemesiaPinkLagoon · 12/07/2019 16:30

Unclear from your post what your stance is but as you point out, your MP has an appalling voting record in particular when it comes to LGBT+ issues and human rights:

www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/24955/matthew_offord/hendon/votes

You might be talking to a brick wall if trying to stand up for LGBT rights; however if you're against trans rights then you probably don't have much to worry about with an MP like that.

Lots of people quoting Telegraph articles in previous comments - well of course they're going to be anti-trans!

finnmcool · 13/07/2019 00:17

@NemesiaPinkLagoon Don't do that nonsense please.

My OP makes it perfectly clear what my stance is.

Being pro women and girls safeguarding, isn't anti trans and quite frankly, I'm disgusted you said that.

Take your small minded bigotry elsewhere please.

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finnmcool · 13/07/2019 00:19

Chattylion thank you for that. I will read it all properly tomorrow 😁

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ChattyLion · 21/07/2019 12:00

Any time OP! Let us know how you get on and good luck with it. Thank you for doing this- it’s really effective having face to face meetings and it reminds me to keep on communicating with my MP. Smile

Sicario · 21/07/2019 20:12

MPs have a short attention span and any number of other things that they're more (self)interested in.

My suggestion would be to stick to legislative impact, and the provision of single-sex spaces and services under the Equality Act.

The question I keep banging on about is:

Sex is a protected category. How can women's and girl's hard-won sex based rights be preserved if the definition of woman is changed to include men?

Changing sex is biologically impossible. A man cannot become a woman. The GRA was an ill-conceived piece of legislation designed to create a legal fiction to help a small number of transexuals, and is now being exploited by those who want to erase women's rights.

Male violence against women and girls is at epidemic levels. Nobody has a right to give away OUR rights.

Ask you MP if they understand why women are deeply concerned about being erased as a defined and protected category. Ask them if they are happy for their daughters/sisters/mothers to lose all their single-sex rights and provisions.

Ask for their assurance that they will stand up against pressure from lobbyists and protect women's existing rights, as enshrined in law.

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