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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Sexual harassment on train, had enough of this

29 replies

derailtrainpervs · 10/07/2019 23:50

Namechanging because my Mum is involved in this.

Mum and I are on a train sitting opposite each other in window seats, having taken two aisle seats earlier and then moved over to the window when the people in the window seats left. There is no table in the seat bay. The train gets busier and an older couple sit next to us in the aisle seats. Mum and I both noticed that the woman was carrying all the shopping, and they don't talk to each other beyond "here's some seats". We come to leave the train, the man suddenly grins widely. He raises his hand as Mum is standing up and hovers it near her bottom but doesn't touch (because I am watching perhaps?). I stand up, and as I leave the seat bay, I feel his hand rest on my backside behind my hip for a few seconds.

No physical harm done but I feel violated, about half-an-hour later I started feeling sick and I'm going to have to shower before I can sleep tonight. This has brought back memories of prior, much more serious sexual assaults and reminded me that, despite 100 years of suffrage and civil rights gains, there are still men out there who think that women exist for men's gratification and convenience and that a woman without a man at her side is abandoned property for any man to claim.

Let's analyse this event.

  1. He knew what he was going to do, he planned it as soon as he realised we were leaving the train, that's why he grinned like he'd been given a present. People don't grin like that normally when someone they've never even spoken to leaves a train.
  2. I was helpless to stop him and he knew it: a) When I stand up, I can't ask him to lower his hand that is poised to touch me, it's his hand so I have no right to tell him to lower it and he hasn't touched me YET. b) I can't tell him not to touch me before I pass him, because that's accusing him of something he has not YET done, and we know how that will end. c) I can't refuse to pass him, there's no other way out of my seat and I'll miss my stop.
  3. I cannot confront him at the time or do the "grab his hand, shout 'who's hand is this that I found on my arse?'" thing, and he knows it: a) If I confront him, I'll miss my station, my Mum is already on her way through the train to the doors and I'll have to call her back, she might not hear me and then she will leave the train without me and we will be separated. b) He touched me for a short enough time that i) I cannot react fast enough to grab his hand/stomp hard on his foot/etc and ii) he could claim it was accidental. c) If I confront him in front of his wife, it will humiliate her in public and I am unwilling to do that out of consideration for her and her feelings. d) If he is abusing/controlling his wife, she will take the brunt of his anger at home if I confront him (remember, he's not talked to her, she told him where seats are and they have been silent since, this is not normal for a couple, and she is carrying all the (food, probably for both of them) shopping when he has enough use of his hands to touch women's arses, this is not the action of a decent man, this is the action of a man who considers his wife to be his servant).
  4. I cannot make a formal complaint to the train operator or police and he knows it: a) His wife didn't see it because I am not see-through, my body was between her and his hand, and she would probably would not support me even if she had, either through "not my Nigel" or through being under coercive control (remember she is carrying all the shopping). b) My Mum didn't see it because she is heading towards the train door with her back to me. c) He would probably claim that he was "being helpful" and "guiding me out" (In which case, why not do the same for my Mum? And do adult women actually need a stranger's hand on the arse to guide them out of a seat bay?).

Mum and I talked this incident over and basically the only thing we can think of that might have prevented it was if we had sat side-by-side so that the couple would have been opposite, and even then he would have still been able to reach one or both of us, especially if he had taken the aisle seat. And frankly, we shouldn't have to change where we sit on a train to stop skeevy men from touching our backsides.

Woman don't react in the moment because we frequently cannot. This is why I'm posting this: people need to understand that women can't always react to or avert sexual harassment.

OP posts:
sackrifice · 11/07/2019 15:58

This is the reason that I sit on the aisle seat and never the window seat.

Ever.

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 11/07/2019 16:13

I'm sure I've posted about this before but it bears repeating. Last summer I was meeting some people quite late in Sloane Square. It was a very loose arrangement. I had no firm idea when they'd turn up. It was a lovely warm evening and I sat on a bench near the fountain with my paper.

Half an hour later I suddenly became aware that no one had bothered me. I'm over 60 now and invisible to most men. Not being pestered was lovely. It really brought home to me how unpleasant and persistent unwanted male attention had been throughout most of my adult life.

I'm heterosexual and I've known lots of delightful men but when I look back the fact is that I've had considerably more unwanted than wanted attention.

Being invisible is lovely.

TurnAroundWhenPossible · 11/07/2019 16:15

God this is depressing and so so common, and now we have the prospect of allowing fully intact males who present as female into our safe spaces; our changing rooms, toilets, hospital wards, refuges etc. What could possibly go wrong?

BoglingToAswad · 11/07/2019 16:26

Sorry this happened to you Flowers

To be honest as I've got older I've become a lot bolder about this sort of thing. If it's a crowded place I loudly say "Get your hand off me", and if they claim it was an accident I tell them to be more careful because obviously they wouldn't want to accidentally sexually assault someone again.

Obviously this isn't always possible or a good idea (or even safe) but at least the transport police are taking this sort of thing more seriously nowadays. You can text 61016 if something like this happens, and even if nothing comes of it this time, they keep a record.

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