Transgender question?

[sweetnsuga123]

A genuine question I have...

I have seen some transgender people arguing against gender stereotypes such as pink is for girls, blue is for boys etc. which is understandable but usually when they speak about their gender dysphoria and how they knew they were a different gender when they were younger they say things like 'I was playing with barbies when my friends were playing with cars. That's when I knew I was a woman' or something along those lines.

So how can you argue against the gender stereotypes but then use them to justify your reason for wanting to be a different gender?

This isn't a hate post towards transgender people, I'm just hoping to be enlightened.

You can't. It's nonsense.

It's all about stereotypes.

Mmm good question, Be interesting to see if you get any answers that don't involve stereotypes.

OP, you can’t expect logic from an ideology that denies science and basic biology.
There are only two sexes. If you believe that you’re the “wrong one”, the only way to “perform” the other sex is to resort to dated behavioural stereotypes, then hormone manipulation and mutilating surgery.
It’s such a shame.
40 years ago, when I was young (sigh!) men could have long hair, wear make up, behave in feminine ways, but still happily be men and have girlfriends. There were thousands of happy, well adjusted hippies. They stretched the bandwidth of acceptable masculinity, instead of trying to claim to be a sex they weren’t.
I think the modern trans activists are harmful to young gay and autistic kids, by trying to insist on rigid stereotypes and push them down the pathway of dangerous puberty blockers and surgery.

Fox and Owl (TRAs, medicalised TW and TM in a relationship) have attempted to address this conundrum in a YouTube video.

"Imagine you are a [male] child who wants to be a girl because you're a transgirl. You see all the girls playing with sparkly pink things and wearing pretty dresses, so because you want to be a girl you then also start to play with pink ponies and dollies and want to wear dresses, not because you really like them but because you just want to be like the girls and you see around that's what girls stereotypically do"

This is 2 grown adults basically saying they can read the minds of 5 (or whatever age) year old children who are playing with the "wrong" things, that they and other adults can interpret the ordinary normal behaviour of gender non conforming children as an expression of being transgender, and so they need the be rushed onto a medical pathway and made sterile or else, the adults say, the child will try to kill themselves.

It's fucked. Totally fucked.

(Can't find the video but I remember feeling sick watching it)

You wont be enlightened.

With all beliefs those who believe it will swap and change facts to suit the narrative. Nothing will change their mind and they will spout the most ridiculous shit in an attempt to "prove it".
Example: I am female now as hormones have made my feet smaller/ I have period cramps despite having no cervix/ I prefer talking about lipstick to football/science knows humans can change sex/women can have a penis.

DpWm For homosexual transsexuals (ie early onset) who develop gender dysphoria prior to puberty, a preference for the things stereotypically associated with the other sex are expressions of genuine preferences not a sophisticated and manipulative gender display for the benefit of adult observers. The suggestion that they do so is incredibly offensive of course, but it makes sense if you remember that non-homosexual (ie late onset) transsexuals who typically develop gender dysphoria post puberty, frequently retcon gender dysphoria into their childhood after the fact.

And that claim also flies in the face of all of the research evidence of how children develop a sense of self, of their own body and their place in the world of sexed beings which fall into two classes.

Unlike what is now claimed by proponents of gender ideology, children develop a sense of their own identity as sexed individuals (not gendered) and they do indeed take their cues from their environment, ie they see other individuals they perceive as female do certain things and they see other individuals they perceive as male do certain things. They categorise their world accordingly. This is not a conscious process.

So I used to think that cooking was women's work while cleaning was men's work and working full-time was women's work and working part-time out of the house and part-time in the house was men's work because that is the environment I grew up in. Once at school, I learned that actually absolutely everyone worked full-time, including my dad, but as I didn't see and certainly never discussed other families' household chore arrangements I never actually learned that cleaning was considered women's work.

There is no arguing against it.

Transgenderism is based on gender (which is a meaningless concept, anyway) stereotypes.

That's all it is. Gender stereotypes.

Don't forget their flag - one big binary stereotype right there.

Don't forget their flag - one big binary stereotype right there.

Is that the pink striped one?

Pink and blue.

I don't think there are enough eye rolls...

It’s what we in the olden days called transvestism - you wore/acted like the opposite sex because you wanted to.

Transsexuals went further and took medication and went under the knife in an attempt to get - visually - as close to the opposite sex as science could manage.

Now - again back on he olden days - a transvestite would not have said in any seriousness that they actually were the opposite sex because no one believed that back then.

Zip forward and there are people who will argue black is white that humans can change sex on a physical and biological level. Through magic, wishing really hard or ‘feelz’. I blame Harry Potter myself and immature brains not learning that fan stays is just that - fantasy.

I don't know if your still reading comments on this, I am trans and addicted to reading hate speech about are community ahaha (too much time on my hands atm, and weirdly really addicted hence why I'm reading old comments, leaving to somewhere without internet soon for a month though) so what the people are saying here is not really accurate. I don't deny that since transgender people became well known people have started transitioning to fit gender roles but most of us transition due to a discomfort with and alienation from the body and a strong feeling of comfort with being in the other body (though we know we are the sex we were assigned with at birth we feel we should be the other sex) the gender roles come second. I personally began feeling really dysphoric at around 5 when I still wore dresses, though I liked my dresses I felt that for people to see me as the sex I felt comfortable with and to really be a boy I had to wear boys clothes, though I did go on to like boys things it was only once I medically transitioned that I started being comfortable wearing dresses again as I would be seen as and see my body as male in them. if gender roles were somehow reversed those who felt like transsexual men would likely wear what this society sees as 'girls' clothes. being trans has helped me realise that gender roles arnt real as all the time I spent playing football and cricket was acting, I didn't enjoy it, now I know I can enjoy anything I just am comfortable in a transitioned body

See, t766etc, your description 'a discomfort with and alienation from the body and a strong feeling of comfort with being in the other body (though we know we are the sex we were assigned with at birth we feel we should be the other sex)' makes perfect logical sense, however it arises, and you have my sympathy.

None of us can force the whole world to change around us, and none of us get to choose our basic physical body. For some people, that must be very tough.

But the numpties who are trying to force everyone else to pretend that people can change sex, or that the sexes don't differ physically, or that the points at which sex differences matter no longer matter... I don't have much sympathy there.

though we know we are the sex we were assigned with at birth we feel we should be the other sex)
That's inconsistent with the 'trans women are women' stance?

Yes, but I think, if I've read that correctly, that t7 is a transman and thus female, and less... inclined to try to rewrite reality, perhaps?... than some.

Yes, but I think, if I've read that correctly, that t7 is a transman and thus female, and less... inclined to try to rewrite reality, perhaps?... than some.
But also refers to the thread as hate speech, and says 'what people are saying here is not really accurate'.

In the interests of accuracy, one cannot state that trans people know they are the sex they were assigned at birth. Many of them insist that they are not.

I'm all for people coming here and reading comments, and preferably talking about why they still find it 'hate speech', given that we seem to agree that people can't change sex.

t7's description is of hating the body while not really objecting to the fripperies (dresses v football). I find that interesting and I can see why s/he (in case I misread!) thinks the OP isn't always an accurate statement.

Surely we should be able to have a discussion of why someone female who is both comfortable with stereotypes of femininity, and aware that sex doesn't change, nevertheless thinks of self as 'a boy'.

More discussion is certainly better than less.

Yes, it's good to hear other perspectives. The insistence from TRAs that there's no debate doesn't help their cause.

t766f43rqwe

How is your expression of your feelings about your body in relation to its sex different from the feelings of an anorexic's feelings about their body [feelings of being fat / obese while starving their body of essential nutrients and energy]?

t766, who assigned your sex at birth?

Welcome t7!

Your comments are really interesting. There is a transman called Rhys on Twitter who had said similar things, would be good to hear more from your perspective.

And Ts is not responsible for the beliefs other trans people hold re birth sex (or whatever), he can only share his own.

I guess they want to abolish the idea of gender stereotypes so that in the future people can be completely free of dysphoria at all but don't yet feel comfortable doing so themselves which is fine

how can th two even moderately be linked, they're completely different. anorexia can be extremely dangerous for you physically and stems from a root of deeper mental health problems that need to be abolished. on top of that, anorexic people will never reach a point of being content in themselves as a result of starving themselves whereas people with body dysmorphia can easily be content from changing their identity.

Psychopathology.

The term psychological disorder is sometimes used to refer to what is more frequently known as mental disorders or psychiatric disorders. Mental disorders are patterns of behavioral or psychological symptoms that impact multiple areas of life. These disorders create distress for the person experiencing these symptoms.

www.verywellmind.com/a-list-of-psychological-disorders-2794776

Gender/body dysmorphia and eating disorders such as anorexia are all classed as psychopathologies.