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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Grooming of Parents and Society

81 replies

ChickenonaMug · 03/07/2019 13:28

I have been thinking about this topic for a few days after seeing some pictures at the weekend of a library's Drag Queen Story Time.

So imagine you spoke to fifty or so loving parents of small children 0 - 5 yrs and told them that in a months time they would find themselves watching as a complete stranger - a man, lies down on the floor and invites their young children to lie across his clothed groin area.

Imagine if you told these parents that instead of reacting in horror that they would actually encourage their child to do so, in fact they would laugh along and celebrate as their own child or other children wriggled about on this man's groin.

Imagine if you told these parents that on this particular day they would teach their child to overcome their natural reticence to engage with this man and that the child will come away with a more confused understanding of how the boundaries that should exist between children and adults work.

Finally, imagine if you told these loving and normally very careful parents that in a months time they - the parents would be 'groomed' to ignore the boundaries that should exist to keep a child safer from sexual abuse and that once they have lost sight of these boundaries their child will now be significantly more vulnerable to harm from someone (either stranger, family or friend) who chooses to sexually abuse them.

I would expect that each of these parents would deny that this would or could happen. Except this is not an imaginary scenario. It really happened. About fifty parents took their children to a Drag Queen Story Time at a library in the US. The photos show the parents and library staff clearly enjoying a sort of party atmosphere, where they drape their children in party colours. The drag queen who is wearing, incredibly heavy make up, reads to the children and then afterwards the children are encouraged to meet him (not misgendering as he is not transgender) and dance with him. Some of the children look worried about being close to him, so their parents respond by handing them over to be held by him. Somehow or another the drag queen ends up on the floor and can be seen holding out his arms as if inviting children to lay on him and they do and the parents all watch happily.

I am not commenting on the intentions of the Drag Queen in inviting children to lie on his groin. I do not know what he was thinking or feeling or what his intentions were but then neither do those parents and they were supposed to be safeguarding their children from possible harm and abuse. These parents were also supposed to be teaching and demonstrating appropriate boundaries to their children, so what happened to make about fifty parents ignore everything that they know they shouldn't?

Abusers (I am not saying that this particular man is or is not. I am just saying that his behaviour breaks the boundaries that exist to protect children) know that the most important people to groom are not the children but the adults who are supposed to be keeping the children safe. Once the adults have been groomed then it is very easy for abuser to groom a child. Not only will a child look to her parents or whoever for reassurance that an abuser can be trusted and that therefore their behaviour must be acceptable, but also when that child realises what is happening to her and looks around for an adult to tell then all she will see is adults and a society who appear to be deluded as to a person's true character. It is amazing how hard it is for a child to even attempt to break through adults' delusion about an individual or groups behaviour.

I am not saying that any particular group of males is more likely than any other to abuse children. This is about how abusers will use anything and everything to groom parents and other adults in order to abuse children. They will not necessarily always need to do the grooming themselves as society has always been very good at holding up certain groups of people on a pedestal and making them untouchable by criticism. Abusers just need to become part of a group that is rarely scrutinised.

Equally society seems very intent at the moment to allow in a narrative in that breaks down boundaries between children and the sexuality of adults and between males and the needs of females to safe spaces. This narrative also encourages those trying to uphold them to be shamed for moralism, erotophobia (a word used by Tatchell) or bigotry.

Without a doubt I think that abusers will take full advantage of any breakdown in safeguarding frameworks and understanding. As usual children will be the ones to suffer the consequences of too many adults' inability to understand when they are putting children at risk in order to fulfil their own needs including the more modern need to appear progressive, kind and inclusive.

OP posts:
ChickenonaMug · 03/07/2019 13:31

I have never posted a photo before. This may not work! I have used a photo without a child's face in it.

OP posts:
Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 03/07/2019 13:31

Chicken, that was a very clear, well written post. You are right. This is a problem. It amazes me that so many people can't see it.

FormerMediocreMale · 03/07/2019 13:35

It's terrifying and I will fight it. My eldest is not due to start school for another year and I am very seriously considering home school due to the boundary issues being pushed on children. Confusion and lack of boundaries is a recipe for serious mental health issues and opens children up to exploitation.

Satterthwaite · 03/07/2019 13:35

Christ. Bloody hell!

JoyceJeffries · 03/07/2019 13:37

Yeah, it’s all a bit odd.

Mishtry · 03/07/2019 13:39

The post echo’s my own worries. Lets be honest if a male teacher in masculine clothes encouraged this they would be fired. But put a bit of make up on all bets are off 🙄.

It is absolutely boundary erasure, parents are supposed to police their children’s boundaries until they are old enough to set their own boundaries. Grooming of parents is precisely what it is. It’s like the Hayward gallery stuff.

OhHolyJesus · 03/07/2019 13:40

I'm like you Former I'm considering homeschooling. If you can't keep my kid safe in your care then you don't get to care for him.

truthisarevolutionaryact · 03/07/2019 13:40

Well said Chicken.
There's a wholesale grooming of society going on at the moment - a shift of the Overton window in terms of what is acceptable. And when you look at the sheer number of MPs and organisations dismissing the safety of children and women in favour of a Stonewall award, it's no wonder that foolish parents are lulled into a woke sense of security - cos if they objected they'd be homophobes, transphobes and bigots wouldn't they?

This man is doing some sterling work in identifying how predators are currently using ideologies and groups to access children. And he calls out the idiots enabling them:

twitter.com/JonKUhlerLPC

(No doubt the creeps monitoring this board will be looking to shut down this discussion as it's just too close to home.... )

Mishtry · 03/07/2019 13:42

Between this stuff and the threads on expectations placed on young women in terms of sex, the violence against women and the general “women are just holes” attitude prevalent today, I’m fantasising about starting a woman only commune populated entirely by gender critical feminists within which to raise my daughter.

stucknoue · 03/07/2019 13:44

The photo is odd, but a single photo can misrepresent easily. I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with drag queen story time especially when advertised as such in advance. Allowing children to clamber all over you (as the picture posted indicates though it does not imply its to a particular part of the body as suggested above) is not appropriate male of female whatever your attire.

You need to separate out genuine safeguarding concerns from those who dislike others choices. In fact acknowledging that some men like to wear women's clothing actually may discourage those who assume liking female clothes equals transgender, it doesn't. As this is a single image I cannot comment on how it came about, where the child's parents were etc

FormerMediocreMale · 03/07/2019 13:45

OhHoly I live in the same county as the lad expelled for his 2 genders comments Confused

IAmAlwaysLikeThis · 03/07/2019 13:46

I just don't get it. What on earth is the point of all this shit.

theconstantinoplegardener · 03/07/2019 13:47

That is alarming. I think in this case there's an element of the famous "smoke filled room" psychology experiment. Because everybody else appears to be going along with this strange behaviour, individual parents, who may have doubts, remain silent.

nonsenceagain · 03/07/2019 13:51

If there’s nothing inherently wrong with drag story time, there’s presumably nothing inherently wrong with blackface story time?

ChickenonaMug · 03/07/2019 13:52

The series of photos are heartbreaking really. Just seeing all these parents (and library officials) sat there looking enchanted by it all.

Seeing photos of one year olds who look scared to be close to this person who must have looked really frightening in their facepaint, to them and then in the next photo the child has been handed over by a smiling parent for a photo, although the child still looks scared.

Then finally several photos of children laying on this man - a number of them across his groin while their parents and other adults look on happily as though children lying a a stranger's groin was just an entirely normal and completely without any possible ill-intent thing.

I know all to well what it is to be that child who realises that their abuser is held up on a pedestal. How on earth do you begin to tell the adults around you that not only are they completely wrong about this man that they love and almost revere, but that sometimes the abuse happened right in front of them and they couldn't even see it?

OP posts:
Goosefoot · 03/07/2019 13:56

This man is doing some sterling work in identifying how predators are currently using ideologies and groups to access children. And he calls out the idiots enabling them:

So, interestingly it says here that he has been told he is not allowed to talk about this grooming, on Twitter, in relation to the trans community.

But they are totally ok with him talking about it in relation to churches and cults and other groups.

What's up with that? Religious belief is a protected characteristic as much as any other. And if someone is using drag queen story-time to avoid anyone looking too closely while they access kids, that's something to be noted as well.

There is a really malign intelligence at work in this.

truthisarevolutionaryact · 03/07/2019 14:00

Indeed Goosefoot - but we know that the predators captured Twitter a long time ago. He directs people to his website.

The library that Chicken refers to was Multnomah County Library. Although they have now deleted the photos they have of course been cached - and they are shocking. Little children sprawled all over a strange man's body. Nearly as shocking to me as the children playing with the puppy fetish males at in their 'special' tent at Pride the other week.

AllTheWhoresOfMalta · 03/07/2019 14:21

This is interesting, although I’m not sure whether I agree with the point or not. Certainly food for thought. Either way though, surely we’ve all seen children’s entertainers who’ve had kids clambering on them, regardless of their being in drag or not? I mean, if you’ve got an issue with that you’ve got an issue with it regardless of their clothing, surely? What could be creepier than Mr. Tumble? He targets kids with special needs! He sometimes pretends to be his own aunt (in drag!)

Potentially I’m missing something, but the drag thing is kind of an irrelevance if you don’t want your kid being exposed to a potentially weird adult in a costume, surely? Year after year parents hand their crying kids over to strangers in a red suit with a fake beard on and take pictures of it and laugh at the kid being freaked out? Are we worried about the intentions of anyone who sets up a Santa meet and greet? Should we be?

I’m not being goady, I genuinely am unsure.

Nappyvalley15 · 03/07/2019 14:30

All the
We don't let kids clamber over Santa. They don't even go on his knee anymore as we know more about grooming and paedophilia. The question being put is why is okay for a small child to clamber over and lie on a strange man because he is in drag.

HandsOffMyRights · 03/07/2019 14:36

I think Lisa Muggeridge has written/youtubed about this..predators grooming parents, moving in schools, youth clubs etc.

I don't have a link (and I'd be grateful if anybody does have the source) but I recall she foreshadowed this current wave of grooming in plain sight, operating under the guise of 'inclusivity'.

truthisarevolutionaryact · 03/07/2019 14:43

AlltheWhoresofMalta
A good question. I suppose FC is not a grotesque caricature of a woman or man? Does not have sexualised imagery? Their body is appropriately covered? Being FC is their only job - they don't moonlight in a sexual role in the evenings? We do know that paedophiles have been attracted to both roles, hence the need for DBS checks for FCs working with children.
If you look at the photos - and in fact most of the 'celebratory' photos of little children confronted by a grotesque drag queen - they show them (quite appropriately) looking alarmed, scared and hesitant. Just the type of natural instinctive reaction you would hope to see in a young child who is being taught to trust their instincts and to approach something frightening with caution.
And then the adults in the background urging the children to ignore their instincts and to approach these painted faces Sad

Mutakirorikatum · 03/07/2019 14:48

Also -minor detail - Santa is not performing a grossly sexualised parody of femininity.

Goosefoot · 03/07/2019 14:56

I am not entirely happy with the idea that all touching, even sitting on Santa's knee, is going to be stopped because it could possibly be sexual. And in any case where I live kids still do sit on Santa's knee if they want to.

There is something about that approach which I think is not helpful, it does not protect kids, and I think it makes them more confused about what is appropriate and what isn't. No, we don't want to socialise kids into being victims by grooming them to see dodgy stuff as normal. But it also blurs the lines when we make normal stuff dodgy. In some countries women and men in a business environment don't shake hands, because that could be some sort of sex thing. That is similarly not a healthy approach it sexualises normal contact, though I think that may end up being the direction our society is going in.

Not to mention we are social mammals, touch is an important form of communication and necessary to mental health, and it's maybe especially important for children.

But I will say the kids clambering over a drag queen makes me uncomfortable in a way that it wouldn't generally with Fred Penner, and I think it's because drag queens are a sexualised entertainment. It would be uncomfortable to have a burlesque dancer doing the same thing as well, even though you'd not likely think their could be direct intentions of access to kids. It's just inappropriate.

truthisarevolutionaryact · 03/07/2019 15:07

Goosefoot
I haven't seen anyone stating that children should not be touched. This is about children lying on top of a drag queen's body - including over his genital area.
This thread is about children being encouraged to breach common sense standards about touching strangers. If it's OK for a 3 year old to roll over a strange drag queen's body in a library then that child is being groomed to lower their boundaries and is more likely to comply on a different occasion if a stranger demands physical contact.
It's grooming

TheInebriati · 03/07/2019 15:16

I am not entirely happy with the idea that all touching, even sitting on Santa's knee, is going to be stopped because it could possibly be sexual.
No one is saying that because that is not the problem.

Safe adults don't mimic the behaviours of unsafe adults, it confuses children.

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