Grooming of Parents and Society

[ChickenonaMug]

I have been thinking about this topic for a few days after seeing some pictures at the weekend of a library's Drag Queen Story Time.

So imagine you spoke to fifty or so loving parents of small children 0 - 5 yrs and told them that in a months time they would find themselves watching as a complete stranger - a man, lies down on the floor and invites their young children to lie across his clothed groin area.

Imagine if you told these parents that instead of reacting in horror that they would actually encourage their child to do so, in fact they would laugh along and celebrate as their own child or other children wriggled about on this man's groin.

Imagine if you told these parents that on this particular day they would teach their child to overcome their natural reticence to engage with this man and that the child will come away with a more confused understanding of how the boundaries that should exist between children and adults work.

Finally, imagine if you told these loving and normally very careful parents that in a months time they - the parents would be 'groomed' to ignore the boundaries that should exist to keep a child safer from sexual abuse and that once they have lost sight of these boundaries their child will now be significantly more vulnerable to harm from someone (either stranger, family or friend) who chooses to sexually abuse them.

I would expect that each of these parents would deny that this would or could happen. Except this is not an imaginary scenario. It really happened. About fifty parents took their children to a Drag Queen Story Time at a library in the US. The photos show the parents and library staff clearly enjoying a sort of party atmosphere, where they drape their children in party colours. The drag queen who is wearing, incredibly heavy make up, reads to the children and then afterwards the children are encouraged to meet him (not misgendering as he is not transgender) and dance with him. Some of the children look worried about being close to him, so their parents respond by handing them over to be held by him. Somehow or another the drag queen ends up on the floor and can be seen holding out his arms as if inviting children to lay on him and they do and the parents all watch happily.

I am not commenting on the intentions of the Drag Queen in inviting children to lie on his groin. I do not know what he was thinking or feeling or what his intentions were but then neither do those parents and they were supposed to be safeguarding their children from possible harm and abuse. These parents were also supposed to be teaching and demonstrating appropriate boundaries to their children, so what happened to make about fifty parents ignore everything that they know they shouldn't?

Abusers (I am not saying that this particular man is or is not. I am just saying that his behaviour breaks the boundaries that exist to protect children) know that the most important people to groom are not the children but the adults who are supposed to be keeping the children safe. Once the adults have been groomed then it is very easy for abuser to groom a child. Not only will a child look to her parents or whoever for reassurance that an abuser can be trusted and that therefore their behaviour must be acceptable, but also when that child realises what is happening to her and looks around for an adult to tell then all she will see is adults and a society who appear to be deluded as to a person's true character. It is amazing how hard it is for a child to even attempt to break through adults' delusion about an individual or groups behaviour.

I am not saying that any particular group of males is more likely than any other to abuse children. This is about how abusers will use anything and everything to groom parents and other adults in order to abuse children. They will not necessarily always need to do the grooming themselves as society has always been very good at holding up certain groups of people on a pedestal and making them untouchable by criticism. Abusers just need to become part of a group that is rarely scrutinised.

Equally society seems very intent at the moment to allow in a narrative in that breaks down boundaries between children and the sexuality of adults and between males and the needs of females to safe spaces. This narrative also encourages those trying to uphold them to be shamed for moralism, erotophobia (a word used by Tatchell) or bigotry.

Without a doubt I think that abusers will take full advantage of any breakdown in safeguarding frameworks and understanding. As usual children will be the ones to suffer the consequences of too many adults' inability to understand when they are putting children at risk in order to fulfil their own needs including the more modern need to appear progressive, kind and inclusive.

Safe adults don't mimic the behaviours of unsafe adults

This. All day long.

And what a fabulous OP, ChickenonaMug.

Those photos have left me feeling quite stunned (and that doesn't happen often these days).

I see from nosying around that the same library is offering similar opportunities for teens too.

Here's a video by Lisa Muggeridge. There are lots more.

truth

It was suggested that kids don't sit on Santa's knee anymore, which is pretty straightforward non-sexual touching in front of tons of people. I think if that is not allowed as potentially sexual almost anything could be seen that way, because it becomes about controlling things like thoughts, a hopeless endeavour.

It's like people who won't teach their school age kids that it is polite and kind to hug their grandmother, even if they'd rather not, because it will make them vulnerable to predators. It won't, it only tells them that their sense of being happy about doing something is what makes them safe or not safe, not something objective that they have learned from their parents.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I haven't ever seen Mr Tumble with kids lying over his groin however he's dressed.

I agree with the OP. This is Overton window shifting.

Perhaps these parents don't see a drag queen as any different to a clown or busking mime?

When a child shows unease with a clown or busking mime, the parents know that they are safe, that no harm will come to them from this strange-looking character. Father Christmas, too, is a known benign fairytale character. A child is in no immediate danger from this make-believe. If anything, they think the child needs to learn to differentiate fear of the strange-but-harmless from fear of the genuinely dangerous.

But perhaps children are wiser than their adults. Perhaps what worries the children when they see a drag is not what worries them when they see a clown, mime or FC.

Safe adults don't mimic the behaviours of unsafe adults

This is a brilliant summary.

The rainbow-washing seems to be totally blinding people to basic common sense and appropriate boundaries.

Anyone who interacts with children in a non-family context would typically be expected to apply common sense in terms of what constitutes appropriate behaviour around physical contact. If you go into school as a parent volunteer to help with reading or football club, if you are a governor going into schools, whatever - you use your common sense. If a child is trying to show you an insect they've found, then they might touch you while putting it on your hand. If they fall over and hurt themselves, you might help them up and put your arm round them while you shepherd them to the person whose job it is to look after them. If they try to sit on your lap, you would typically discourage that because you are a relative stranger and it is not appropriate for a child to be seeking that level of contact from you.

If, as a relatively unfamiliar adult, you went into a school or other childcare setting, lay down on the floor and encouraged children to lie on top of you, how quickly do you think you would be escorted off the premises and probably reported to whichever organisation you represented? I'd give it under 90 seconds. Because there are no circumstances in which that is appropriate behaviour.

Other than if you're a drag queen, it would seem.

Thanks Jog

Goosefoot

I will happily debate the general issue of children and touching if you want to start a thread? I don't want to derail this one from the specific issue of children being groomed by adults to find it acceptable to roll over a strange man's body (who is dressed as a drag queen) in a public setting and the implications for children's safety and the shifting of the Overton window.

Recent research has shown (forthcoming at end of July) that staff working with 2 year olds in nurseries are hesitant to touch children for fear of it being seen as inappropriate. But we need to teach our children what is appropriate touching (as we all need that at times) and what is inappropriate. To me children lying across a drag queen is clearly inappropriate - and I think is grooming- but for many children that may be the only physical contact they have from adults outside the family and so have nothing to compare it with. We need to talk about appropriate touching with parents and model it with children.

Goosefoot, your comments suggest that you haven't really grasped safeguarding at all. Its got nothing to do with 'some behaviours are sexual and others are non sexual, public and safe', or 'some are polite and some are rude.'

Bodily autonomy is sacrosanct; you don't train them to ignore their own reluctance and overcome it no matter how rude or upsetting Grandma finds that.

It is obviously not okay for an adult stranger to lie on the floor and have children lie on top of them.

We as adults understand these basic distinctions don’t we? We’re not confused between sitting on a knee and lying on top of someone? We know they are very different things?

Even when it is our own kids together, we know there’s a difference between two children sitting next to each other and one lying on another without clear consent? Yes?

And we don’t make wary or reticent children or adults go near people like clowns or mime artists because
disguised faces are scary to people because it makes it harder to read intent. And forcing your kids to interact with strangers they are scared of makes you an arsehole.

It is grooming. That is the word we use for slowly accustomizing and acclimatising youngsters to accept sexuality that they would not naturally by free choice. Sexuality and the right of men to express theirs has suddenly become sacrosanct above everything else, very other value, every other boundary. I link it to what seems to be a general turn away from allowing people to trust their own intelligence, and instead passively accept authority everywhere.

I don’t get the whole drag queen and kids thing. What is “progressive” (foul word) about drag? Leave aside the insult to women - I get that none of the woke care about that - aren’t they a very outdated stereotype of “alternative” gender alignment?

Two of the library drag queens in the US were found to have prior sex offence convictions. I think their victims were women (not children) but one had multiple child abuse images on his computer.

I think the drag performers get more out of it than the kids.

It’s not progressive. It’s regressive stereotyping of women and for that alone, I don’t approve. It’s also adult entertainment. Why not get strippers in next or pole Dancers?

Pole dancing parties already. Admittedly useful for developing core strength. Perhaps if the viewer is sexualising it that's on them. This article not so sure.
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/12159540/pole-dancing-fitness-exercise-children-eight-year-olds-this-morning-itv.html

I find it a little strange that some people can not see that it is inappropriate for a man to lie down and then invite children to lie on top of him, including on top of his groin. As I said I do not know what his intentions were and he may simply be a man who does not understand the appropriate boundaries that should exist between an adult and a child. Boundaries that exist to safeguard children.

However the appropriate response of the parents in that room should have been to stop it happening by immediately removing their child or asking him to stand up. The very least the library staff should have done is to immediately stop it from continuing and then take him to one side, explain that it was inappropriate behaviour as it may confuse children about appropriate boundaries. The library should then evaluated what when wrong and how they could prevent such a breach of safeguarding protocol from happening again.

Instead what happened is that everyone looked on smiling, the pictures were put online, quite possibly by the library themselves (considering that the pictures before or after these appeared to be exhibitions held by the library). The library then held another another story time six months later with the same person.

This is not about the fact that this person wears drag particularly, it would be inappropriate for a stranger, no matter who they were or what they were wearing to do this. However it is about the blind eye that occurs because this person happened to be performing a Drag Act at the time. This appears to be massively contributing to the fact that all the adults in the room ignored the inappropriate behaviour and some actually encouraged the children to override their natural wariness and reluctance. It is so similar to how adults in the past have overlooked the behaviour of other men in the past who have been members of 'revered' groups such as celebrities, priests, scout leaders or just upstanding members of the community. The problem is where adults are no longer able or willing to uphold the boundaries in all circumstance regardless then abusers will take advantage.

Abusers are not the people who you would most suspect, instead they are the ones that you would least suspect. Always maintain and demonstrate the boundaries so that children can be sure of where the line should be drawn. Always demonstrate to children that no adult is beyond criticism for their behaviour.

As a child I would have run screaming from the man in the photo. My parents were quite sensible and I can imagine my mum telling him off for scaring the weans. I can only imagine what my granny would have done with her brolly.

The women in our family are quite feminist - even the ones who would have thought it was a dirty word way back when - their principles stood, and they were fiercely protective of children.

Goosefoot, your comments suggest that you haven't really grasped safeguarding at all.

This is an unhelpful comment. You don't have some kind of godlike insight into safeguarding that trumps other people's thoughts on your say-so.

The suggestion that kids no longer should sit on Santa's knee for the same reason that laying on top of drag queens is a problem is a statement that can be disagreed with and seems to embody some problematic ideas. "Bodily autonomy is all" being one of them, I might point out that in another form it is the same one being pushed by questionable people - if it doesn't feel bad it's not a problem so not abuse. Children have all kinds of feelings which may or may not reflect reality, and they need direction from trusted adults about how to interpret situations and feelings.

A few people have responded with useful thoughts that further the conversation. The point about caregivers being afraid of appropriate touch being a useful thought. Conflating Santa and this kind of behaviour involving an already sexualised image is not at all helpful to safeguarding, on the contrary it undermines it.

We’re not confused between sitting on a knee and lying on top of someone? We know they are very different things?

You'd think, but evidently not.

ChickenonaMug
Your post is a chilling reminder of how predators like Jimmy Savile operated - openly and in plain sight. Many people knew about and observed his behaviour and did nothing - as the BBC and a number of enquiries highlighted. The fallout and allegations of complicity were massive.

Society knows how this works - every safeguarding review and enquiry lays it out for us. Yet Stonewall and the other lobby groups are so powerful that they are able to replicate the power dynamics that enabled predators like Savile to operate in plain sight - with politicians, charities, universities and all being complicit in enabling the removal of safeguards for women and children.

We already know that the fall out for children being 'transed', medicated and mutilated below the age of consent will be massive. But I am realising that there are going to be multiple safeguarding disasters on a scale that will replicate Savile, Rotherham etc. It is inevitable as no agencies are standing up and calling out the deliberate targeting of children and erosion of their boundaries.

I can't bear what I am seeing happen.

Without wishing to derail - another thing that never happens:

www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/paedophile-banned-from-dressing-up-as-father-christmas-for-10-years-a3236381.html

It is so similar to how adults in the past have overlooked the behaviour of other men in the past who have been members of 'revered' groups such as celebrities, priests, scout leaders or just upstanding members of the community.

Yes. Exactly this. We have created a sacred caste. It's a safeguarding disaster.

Actually an abuser is not always who you would least suspect, some such as Saville are suspected by a significant number but if an abuser places some kind of cloak of respectability or celebrity or 'progressiveness' around them then people will not call them out. Something we as a society seem to have to learn time and time again.