I’ve just been denied medical management of a failed abortion

[Tinyteatime]

I had a medical termination last Saturday, 7 weeks pregnant after my coil failed. Thought it had passed relatively easily so came away on a short holiday with my family luckily only 1.5 hours away from home. Started heavy bleeding and bad cramps yesterday, came to a&e as as advised by the BPAS clinic as I was flooding a pad and blood leaking through my trousers. Passed some very large clots. Internal scan reveals what they think is a foetal heart beat still in there. I’ve been in hospital one night and they said they would do the surgery on me this morning. I’ve just been told that all the doctors available won’t perform the procedure due to religion. This in the U.K. in 2019, in a hospital that offers abortion services. They’ve said I can stay another night and have it tomorrow, I have a breastfed baby that I’ve already been away from for one night, I’m in pain, bleeding and I’ve already had sepsis last year from a womb infection whilst giving birth so I’ve raised infection risk as a concern. I feel so angry about this. Would they deny women treatment for miscarriage? Or is it because there may still be a foetal heartbeat present? Is it simply because I’ve chosen to end the pregnancy myself? How in an nhs hospital can women be denied healthcare like this?

Those gynaecologists are in the wrong job if they aren't willing to carry out all parts of their jobs.

This is an absolute travesty. I'm really shocked.

So sorry, I hope you get the immediate medical attention you deserve and so desperately need. Who are these people?!?!

That's awful. Abortion is legal in this country full stop. If you don't want to carry out an abortion choose a different branch of medicine to work in or work somewhere it is not legal

Some areas have problems with recruiting consultant level staff. So, if their choice is to have someone who objects to providing all aspects of reproductive care, or, no one, then, they are going to take the person.

And, if you are looking for a job, and you object to providing reproductive care, you're likely to be attracted to working in a department where those views are not seen as being problematic.

Postcode lottery.

I am appalled to read this. I'm so sorry you're in this situation OP.

Surely hospitals have an obligation to ensure adequate cover. There must be rules about the proportion of doctors on duty at any one time that can refuse to perform certain procedures.

I have nothing helpful to say apart from that I wouldn't be thinking about legal action as suggested by pp on this thread. Just focus on getting through the next 24 hours.

I wonder whether you could pay for a side room? Having said that, I thought hospitals had a duty to keep breastfeeding babies with their mums so I would also explore this with PALs and see what can be done to keep you together.

doctors who will terminate pregnancies, and doctors who won't (plenty) but this is not a termination, it's management of a failed termination and a patient who is bleeding heavily who has a history of womb infection ffs. A woman who is breastfeeding a baby. Why are the risks to her health and life and her existing baby's health and life so much less important than a doctor's religious belief? A doctor who could have chosen another specialty?

Bloody hell. I hope you get some treatment asap, OP, this is absolutely disgusting and needs raising at national level by the press and in Parliament. Several people need to be wheeled out and shot for it, IMO.

Fucking hell OP - this has made me cry, I'm so sorry you're having to work this hard to get urgent medical care at an already upsetting time.

I too have thought about NI since reading your thread, I can only imagine the terror and pain of women there.

Really hope you get seen soon. In the past when medical care has gone wrong (lots of operations following a car crash) I've been clear on the effects to my mental health and occasionally this has helped.

Once the pain was mismanaged, nurses refusing the amount of morphine the surgeon had recommended.

I told them that if I didn't get the appropriate pain relief I would hurt myself in desperation for the pain to stop. Surgeon got wind and bollocked them (loudly) and it was sorted.

I know it's a different situation but with them so hot on sepsis usually I'm so disappointed they're being so lax about such a high risk for sepsis.

Keep pushing for the care you need my love, on some occasions I've found they end up doing something just to shut you up. Two of these occasions I would have been further brain damaged had I left it in their hands.

Will be thinking of you today and willing you on remotely!

You should also be open with employers, partners or colleagues about your conscientious objection

I confess to a wry smile at this excerpt from the guidance, given that I used to recruit locum HCPs. Many would be surprised at how unforthcoming some would be about these restrictions, should they perceive a risk to the amount of work they'd be offered ... though it's fair to say the reluctance disappeared very fast once they'd secured the job

Anyway, what's matters most here is OP's health, and I very much hope that you'll soon receive the treatment you deserve and be well on the way to recovery

OP I have sent you a PM as I am involved with a group in Devon that you might be interested in contacting after you have recovered from this. Don't worry about it now, though, just file for later!

I think the point is that health services are stretched, obviously in an ideal world no doctors who worked this speciality having any objections would be good. I’m not sure how you square this circle, as obviously you can’t force people to violate their beliefs. Ok we look at firing all the doctors that won’t do this, and ensuring all doctors have to perform these procedures, but I think it would be wise to consider the knock on affect this might have on women’s health care provision.

How about these doctors put the patient’s interests above their own personal views? Nobody is asking them to terminate their own pregnancies. This is a woman who needs urgent treatment and how you can smile at her and tell her to wait until the next day because you can’t bring yourself to help her is seriously beyond belief. And I absolutely cannot believe that there can be any way that anyone can object to providing NURSING CARE to a patient. Is that really true? If so, utterly utterly disgusting and needs to be challenged ASAP.

OP I am so sorry you are going through this. I really hope they get your baby in with you and you can have op soon so that this is hopefully past you and you can recover.

I live in NI and in 2015 I went to A&E with severe pains around 6/7 weeks pregnant. Went to gynae and were they couldn't find pregnancy but bloods were in the 10s of thousands. I was seen by an italian Dr who said they were going to operate that night to see if they would find pregnancy and remove that night. Went home to get my bag and came back to a NI Dr who said as I was stable as in I was able to function through stabbing pain they would wait till morning. The next morning I was told I had to wait 48 hours to check that HCG wasn't doubling before they could do anything!!! So I stayed in hospital for 2 days at risk of rupture, with no sign of pregnancy in my womb before they would operate in case it would be seen as a termination and they legally couldn't do that. In the end I had my right tube and pregnancy removed. I knew my pregnancy wasn't right and I was content to go ahead and get it over, keep me safe and home to my other child but they couldnt give me the care I needed. uK is bad Northern Ireland is a disgrace.

what happened to 'do no harm'?

awful. So sorry OP.

Sorry my post is so badly written on my phone and rushing as lunch is nearly over. Hope you're ok OP I really do.

t I wouldn't be thinking about legal action as suggested by pp on this thread. Just focus on getting through the next 24 hours.

The suggestion of legal action is to provide a huge boot up the hospital's arse so they'll actually treat the OP faster, so it hopefully won't be 24 hours until she is treated.

This is unbelievable. I cannot believe what the hospital are putting you through. Putting you and your family at such a high level of risk is atrocious. No one should be in that hospital if they are not prepared to help everyone they see to the fullest of their abilities.

Hi @Tinyteatime, we both posted on the other termination thread. I am so sorry to hear what an awful time you're having. It is shameful that in a country where abortion is legal doctors are allowed to use religion as an excuse to let their patient suffer. Disgraceful.

Wish you all the best OP, I hope this resolves as soon as humanly possible, and you are back with your family soon.

This is awful, OP. Shouldn’t be allowed to happen.

The argument that hospitals are forced, because of recruitment challenges, to recruit some 'objector doctors' who can refuse some patients could equally apply to doctors who refuse to treat murderers. Or rapists. Or paedophiles.
But it doesn't happen does it?
A doctor is LEGALLY COMPELLED to treat those patients and opting out is not an option, unless opting out is the last thing you do before your career ends and you get prosecuted.

So I'm wondering why we treat women as more disposable than murderers, rapists and paedophiles.

And I'm wondering how we ended up allowing doctors to abdicate their legal and medical responsibilities to women because 'conscience', when we forbid that in other circumstances.

So.

Time for the law to change.
No more opting out.
Treat all your patients, with severe consequences for your refusal. If you can't, become a dentist instead.

Sounds like the coil hasn’t improved much in thirty-odd years. I was born after my mum used one snd lots of other women were being given their coils together with their babies (anecdotal, I know).

When I was looking into medicine, the mental health part said once I was trained up I could object to giving patients electric shock therapy. As I have a very strong objection to this act, I disregarded the area straight away.

Why go into an area of medicine you disagree with? Cute babies and happy mums are all well and nice, but it is not the sole area covered as these doctors and nurses would have known when investigating their specialism.

Also, sepsis matters. Have you been properly tested for it? Too many people have had their symptoms overlooked until it was too late.

Fermerswife that is truly horrifying. I’m so sorry that happened to you. I want to thank everyone for your comments of support, it’s keeping me going. Form what I can work out it actually seems that most of the consultant gynaecologists at this hospital are objectors. They are sending me down to another ward tomorrow for the surgery, which I assume is the ward that does the abortions. Since that ward doesn’t offer emergency care it seems women in this region really are at risk if they come in with complications of an incomplete abortion.

I think you must be at my local hospital if you’re in North Devon - really disappointed & disgusted to hear how they are treating you.

The argument that hospitals are forced, because of recruitment challenges, to recruit some 'objector doctors' who can refuse some patients could equally apply to doctors who refuse to treat murderers. Or rapists. Or paedophiles.
But it doesn't happen does it?
I never thought about this before, and your right about it. And that makes the fact that this kind of situation can happen so much worse.