I’ve just been denied medical management of a failed abortion

[Tinyteatime]

I had a medical termination last Saturday, 7 weeks pregnant after my coil failed. Thought it had passed relatively easily so came away on a short holiday with my family luckily only 1.5 hours away from home. Started heavy bleeding and bad cramps yesterday, came to a&e as as advised by the BPAS clinic as I was flooding a pad and blood leaking through my trousers. Passed some very large clots. Internal scan reveals what they think is a foetal heart beat still in there. I’ve been in hospital one night and they said they would do the surgery on me this morning. I’ve just been told that all the doctors available won’t perform the procedure due to religion. This in the U.K. in 2019, in a hospital that offers abortion services. They’ve said I can stay another night and have it tomorrow, I have a breastfed baby that I’ve already been away from for one night, I’m in pain, bleeding and I’ve already had sepsis last year from a womb infection whilst giving birth so I’ve raised infection risk as a concern. I feel so angry about this. Would they deny women treatment for miscarriage? Or is it because there may still be a foetal heartbeat present? Is it simply because I’ve chosen to end the pregnancy myself? How in an nhs hospital can women be denied healthcare like this?

Yes they said they would not perform on religious grounds. They wanted me to know this, or they could have just said ‘you are no longer considered urgent and we are too busy to do the op on this ward’. Which I would have accepted. I ask, If they didn’t think my op was necessary sooner rather than later, why did the consultant (the one who refused to do it herself) pull strings to get me into another department ASAP? If she’d truly believed I was at no risk of infection she would have said go home and wait to see how things play out. I was not insisting on the op, who wants to have a GA if it’s deemed unnecessary?

OhFan thanks for filling me in, but honestly, what difference would it have made if the doctor wasn't religious - the outcome is still the same - delayed treatment, which could have been delayed for a whole heap of other reasons on any given day.

you read enough to confirm your bias what bias? I'm just pointing out that doctors do have a choice (and thats never going to change), not necessarily on religious grounds, and that it wasn't an emergency (required timely care, yes, but not emergency care).

The OP got the care she needed after several hours. If she had been haemorrhaging all over the floor in A&E she would have been taken straight to theatre.

After 2 days actually. Why do you think they rushed me straight in to a&e when I arrived, past all the other emergencies? I was bleeding ALL over the wheelchair, soaking the absorbent pads and my BP was low at one point. I passed a lot of retained product naturally whilst in a&e and that’s when the bleeding slowed, so I was then ‘downgraded’ as it were.

Ah - crossposted! I admire your fortitude.

What Jessica says.

OP, this is how the NHS works. I'm not for a second saying you didn't need the procedure, you clearly did, you just didn't need it right that second or that hour. Patients sit for hours and sometimes days with broken bones waiting for a theatre slots, if something more important comes in they will be bumped down the list. Its how an unpredictable service works.

if something more important comes in

THAT IS NOT WHAT HAPPENED. Doctors CHOSE not to perform it based on their misogynistic moralising attitudes.

You really don’t need to explain the situation again, you have already and I’m sure it’s upsetting to have to keep doing it. Those too lazy and judgemental to read the entire thread can bore off.

This.

Ignore the self righteous callousness, OP.

TinyTeaTime glad you got the care eventually

What religion are the doctors?

Dr, I fully accept this and I know quite well how the nhs works, but the on duty gynaecologist team were not ‘too busy’ they made a point of saying I needed the op, but they wouldn’t do it because of religion. What is so hard to grasp? Had they said they are too busy with bigger priorities I would have understood. It was over 24 hours delay operating on what is essentially an infection risk in a patient that has recently had sepsis (and I know how fast that takes hold, before I went into sceptic shock I had no signs of infection at all apart from slightly raised temp about 45 mins before). They are willing to put patients at risk rather than perform ops they don’t want to, that is a disgrace to the medical profession.

what difference would it have made if the doctor wasn't religious

She would have been treated properly.

which could have been delayed for a whole heap of other reasons on any given day.

But it wasn't was it? It was delayed because a doctor refused to treat her on religious grounds.

“There also seems to be a belief that doctors objecting to participate in terminations do so on religious grounds. I've been a doctor nearly 20 years and this isn't my experience. I did my stint in O&G. I chose not to participate in terminations, as did almost every other doctor in the department (from memory I think there were about 3 out of 15 who would), and very few of them were religious. If you only have 3 doctors willing to participate in terminations do you expect those 3 to work a 1 in 3 rota (i.e. work 24 hours in every 72 hours) to ensure this non emergency service is covered? Most doctors go into medicine to save lives, not to end them; actively participating in terminations sits very uncomfortably with many doctors, religious or not. There is a huge difference between supporting womens' choices and actively participating in ending a life. And I say that as someone who did briefly consider a termination.”

Herein lies the problem. People almost always only frame the abortion debate in terms of the woman’s rights to bodily autonomy. When the reality is an exercising of those rights is entirely dependent on the highly skilled medical health professionals. Doctors are not objects and tools. It would also appear that the religious aspect is something of a red herring.

I understand the argument that if doctors are uncomfortable with any aspect of treatment they shouldn’t go into it and I’d like to agree with it. However what do we do if it turns out the demand of this medical skills set far outstrips supply?

If she had been haemorrhaging all over the floor in A&E she would have been taken straight to theatre. Really, it wasn't an emergency.

I was haemorrhaging all over the floor in an A&E department in London in 1994 and this was my second miscarriage. I wasn't taken straight to theatre but left for two nights before surgery in a hospital ward that was unfit for purpose.

I was told by the consultant that the baby might still survive! The nurse attending me said that no way could the baby have survived and I agreed. It was exactly the same as my first miscarriage. I was at a different hospital then and got that surgery on the day I was admitted.

When I knew I was going to have a third miscarriage, loss of sickness at 8 weeks, I booked a termination with BPAS, after the GP I went to refused to to book me in for one. No way was I going through that horror again.

It's a disgraceful attitude to take to a patient who has already gone through an abortion procedure, which has failed, especially given previous medical history.

It simply puts women in danger, with no care for her family life and is, in my opinion, a form of punishment.

I would have thought that attitudes would have changed by now. Seems not.

Good luck with your recovery OP.

Absolutely @Dervel

What religion are the doctors?

It really doesn't matter. Let's not make this into a single religion bashing thread.

We're better than this.

I agree with @drinthehouse - I don't think many people on here understand the concept of emergency medical treatment.

I don't think many people on here understand the concept of emergency medical treatment.

Yes we fucking do. No, what is happening is a couple of insensitive lazy arse posters aren’t reading the thread or are IGNORING THE FACTS.

I understand the argument that if doctors are uncomfortable with any aspect of treatment they shouldn’t go into it and I’d like to agree with it. However what do we do if it turns out the demand of this medical skills set far outstrips supply?

Whataboutery is annoying. We don’t know exactly what percentage of doctors won’t do this ( are misogynistic ) so it’s really irrelevant to this thread. Doctors are supposed to do the job required of them, including any and all legal gynaecological care. There shouldn’t be an opt out. The end.

I've been in a serious car accident with broken ribs, an extremely bruised but thankfully intact face and a fractured pelvis - that's an emergency. However, a watchful wait was considered the best approach without painkillers!?. I was 18 at the time and understood the principles behind this approach, even though I was in tremendous pain.

I went to A&E with sepsis following a routine operation (done privately). I was admitted as an emergency but had to be stabilised with intravenous antibiotics before surgery could take place the following day. Glad to be alive!

I understand emergencies. I also understand good practice with excellent HCPs.

Dervel fully accept this in a case of elective termination, but what about cases of retained product? If a pregnancy is clearly unviable, even if they might detect a heartbeat (which still remains unclear in my case) surely this should still be treated as a case of retained product which is an infection risk?

I think it is very sad that a woman discussing endangering actions by medical staff due to her sex is seen as a target for abusive sexist comment online.

Make no mistake, when a poster asks for help in this way here and states that this is her life and she does not want a debate thread then anyone who thinks it is fitting to come on this thread, in any guise, and use it as a platform to air an irrelevant belief system is being an abusive arsehole.

OP I am very relieved to hear you were properly cared for eventually and commend your bravery in speaking out here and pursuing a complaint. Sepsis is a killer and all too many people are unaware of how deadly and fast an infection can be.

I know you have a busy life but I hope you can take some time out to recover and process this, you have been let down badly and shouldn't have been.

Placemats that sounds just awful

Some real yoga style stretching and reaching to try and gaslight OP here. Hope you all warmed up first.

I once got sepsis from a kidney infection (from ‘honeymoon cystitis’). 5 night stay in hospital.
Cranberry juice alone didn’t resolve it 😂

Glad yesterday went to plan *
Hope you can have a lovely time reconnecting with your baby, get that supply going again.

I also have three children, despite all that, so at least some good came from it.

Keep well Tiny

And no judgement from me!