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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

I’ve just been denied medical management of a failed abortion

722 replies

Tinyteatime · 27/06/2019 10:42

I had a medical termination last Saturday, 7 weeks pregnant after my coil failed. Thought it had passed relatively easily so came away on a short holiday with my family luckily only 1.5 hours away from home. Started heavy bleeding and bad cramps yesterday, came to a&e as as advised by the BPAS clinic as I was flooding a pad and blood leaking through my trousers. Passed some very large clots. Internal scan reveals what they think is a foetal heart beat still in there. I’ve been in hospital one night and they said they would do the surgery on me this morning. I’ve just been told that all the doctors available won’t perform the procedure due to religion. This in the U.K. in 2019, in a hospital that offers abortion services. They’ve said I can stay another night and have it tomorrow, I have a breastfed baby that I’ve already been away from for one night, I’m in pain, bleeding and I’ve already had sepsis last year from a womb infection whilst giving birth so I’ve raised infection risk as a concern. I feel so angry about this. Would they deny women treatment for miscarriage? Or is it because there may still be a foetal heartbeat present? Is it simply because I’ve chosen to end the pregnancy myself? How in an nhs hospital can women be denied healthcare like this?

OP posts:
Tinyteatime · 27/06/2019 19:39

Justchecking I’m now aware that it can take two weeks after speaking to my local hospital. I have followed the advice I was given by the clinic to go to hospital for very heavy bleeding that is flooding a maxi pad. THIS hospital are the ones who suggested I have surgical management due to infection risk and heavy bleeding. I don’t particularly want to have a GA. I’m not asking for this treatment, I’ve put my trust in the doctors to decide, no doctor has questioned that I need it, they just won’t do it themselves. I’m going for the surgery tomorrow as I don’t want to wait another week and potentially have to have it anyway. I have two children and an active job, I can’t go round knowing I might start bleeding that heavily again. I have thanked the people at the hospital who have pulled strings to get me in the appropriate clinic tomorrow.

OP posts:
MoobaaMoobaa · 27/06/2019 19:50

can I just clarify some of the advice given?

if there is a heartbeat then OP is not at risk of sepsis.

If there is no heartbeat is OP at risk of sepsis? as she had it recently and another doctor said it was high possibility.

AnneElliott · 27/06/2019 19:53

Agree with everyone that your situation is awful. I think Drs who refuse to do part of the role, should have a reduction in salary - it is outrageous that they are treating you in this way.

Clankboing · 27/06/2019 19:59

I cant help with the medical side but I do know that you should be able to have your breastfed baby with you. I once stayed overnight in hospital without my breastfed baby and the health visitor told me after that had I contacted her she or any other HV would have ensured that this was possible. Sorry if you have referred to this - I haven't read the full thread - but I just wanted to make you aware.

Soubriquet · 27/06/2019 20:12

This is absolutely disgusting

I can’t believe crap like this is happening in 2019 Angry

quince2figs · 27/06/2019 20:19

OP, you are getting conflicting advice here some of which is inaccurate. A medical (tablet) termination usually causes the pregnancy to be expelled on the same day as taking the 2nd lot of tablets. Occasionally takes 48-72 hours. It does not take “up to 2 weeks” at all - but it is normal after the initial very painful and heavy bleeding within 72h, to then have continued or on/off light-moderate bleeding for 2-4 weeks.

Retained products of conception is the term for any retained tissue, even small amounts, which are most often asymptomatic and resolve without intervention. Surgery rarely needed for these.

After the initial bleeding and passing of products, any heavy bleeding with large clots or pain needs admission to rule out incomplete termination (usually a collapsed sac).
It sound very much as if you have the this, which is more likely to cause the heavy bleeding you’ve had as the body tries to expel. It can also block the cervix, with a high risk for further heavy bleeding. Antibiotics are advised. You should have had a speculum examination to see if the cervix is open, and had bloods to check inflammatory markers, haemoglobin, pregnancy hormone on admission.

If so, this is in no way a viable pregnancy, and there is NO grounds for any doctor or nurse to withold any care, INCLUDING surgery - as it is no longer a termination.
I can’t stress enough the importance of getting a copy of the scan on discharge. If there is no formal report as it was done by a junior doctor in a ward setting, the accuracy sounds questionable.

I’m glad it’s hopeful you will have the surgery tomorrow - as you say, this is a much more definite outcome. Waiting longer is an option, but not one that would be advisable.

Keep posting if you need to; dearly hope there are no further problems tomorrow.

quince2figs · 27/06/2019 20:23

Oh, and any ultrasound image/film should nowadays be saved to the hard drive of the machine, so that it can be reviewed if needed. 10minutes+ is much longer than standard for a scan. By definition, a feral heartbeat cannot be seen in a collapsed sac. HTH.

flapjackfairy · 27/06/2019 20:29

No doctor should be forced to perform an abortion if they are morally against it.
Contrary to mumsnet opinion not everyone thinks it is something that should be available for any and every reason.

JessicaWakefieldSV · 27/06/2019 20:33

No doctor should be forced to perform an abortion if they are morally against it

Once again, this is gynaecology, they shouldn’t chose a specialised profession like this if there are procedures they don’t wish to perform. It’s part of the job. They’re not being forced into this occupation. Either you’re willing to do what is required in the job, or you get a different one.

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 27/06/2019 20:33

Contrary to mumsnet opinion not everyone thinks it is something that should be available for any and every reason

There isnt a ‘Mumsnet opinion’...quite obviously

sakura06 · 27/06/2019 20:36

So sorry to read about your traumatic experience OP. Absolutely horrifying. I hope you're ok. Please do complain when you're able to.

Sounds like excellent and informative advice from quince2figs.

Sakura7 · 27/06/2019 20:37

No doctor should be forced to perform an abortion if they are morally against it.
Contrary to mumsnet opinion not everyone thinks it is something that should be available for any and every reason.

It's a legal procedure and hospitals should be sufficiently staffed with doctors who are prepared to provide this care. I agree with PPs that doctors who are unwilling to do this should pick a different speciality, as abortion care is part of the job of a gyno.

Really sorry you've had to deal with this OP. When you feel up to it you should contact your MP, and any others that have a good record on this issue (Stella Creasy springs to mind).

TheBigBallOfOil · 27/06/2019 20:38

Of course doctors shouldn’t be permitted to withhold or not participate in lawful medical treatment on ethical grounds. Their ethical duty is to do their best for the patient within the law. This anachronism should be removed. The medical profession has far too many privileges.

Whatisthisfuckery · 27/06/2019 20:41

Hi OP, I was reading your thread at lunchtime but have been busy so haven’t had time to post.

I’ve nothing remotely helpful to say other than I hope you have a comfortable night and all this gets resolved in the morning.

The treatment you’ve had, or haven’t had more to the point, is utterly appalling. If doctors refuse to do part of the job then they shouldn’t be doing any of it.

What other area of medicine are doctors allowed to refuse aspects of the work on religious grounds? Any treatment that men may need? Nope, thought not. Disgusting!

DCDA · 27/06/2019 20:44

Best practice is for out of hours scans to be repeated by a qualified sonographer the next day.

Some gynae registrars and consultants scan but they would have to have appropriate training. When scanning they would have to store the correct scan images and provide a written computerised report just like the sonographer has to.

I assume your scan was rather unofficial, this is worrying as there are numerous national guideline in place to avoid doctors just having a go at scanning.

Whatisthisfuckery · 27/06/2019 20:49

Would it be worth OP doing a subject access request for all of the reports and documentation from her admission?

Can such a thing be done?

Muststopfaffing · 27/06/2019 20:51

Instead the consultant has told me that I’m not worthy of her treatment because she places judgment on the actions I have taken.

This is medico-legally and ethically indefensible practice, not to mention completely unprofessional and just plain cruel. Regardless of her personal feelings she should not be jeopardising your care, nor should anyone else. Yes, ethical objection is permitted, but it is absolutely clear that appropriate care MUST then be arranged. They have failed in their duty of care by not doing this.

Oncewasblueandyellowtwo · 27/06/2019 20:56

flapjackfairy,
Read the fucking thread and OP already said in a post that she does not want a debate.
Tinytea Sending you the best wishes and hoping you have a comfortable night and good sleep

justchecking1 · 27/06/2019 21:39

@quince2figs it can take up to 2 weeks to complete, and FYI NICE guidance no longer prescribes mifepristone as an initial oral tablet, just one dose of misoprostol pessaries

justchecking1 · 27/06/2019 21:43

Sorry, ignore the above, was thinking if MMC

Namechangedforthis101 · 27/06/2019 21:50

Wow! This is terrible and I hope you complain.

I say that as a former Hospital Chaplain.
Religious beliefs should motivate doctors to care and compassion for their patients, not to maltreatment and unkindness. Faith can absolutely have a place in medicine. Judgement, however, does.

A man would never be treated like this. I cannot see how any dr could refuse you follow up care in this situation, it isnt a pro-life stance at all, it's just anti-abortion!

So angry on your behalf. Hope you are ok, come back and update us when you're able.

Ineedacupofteadesperately · 27/06/2019 21:56

Tiny sending you unmumsnetty hugs and hoping you're getting some lovely bf cuddles from your baby to help you through this difficult time. I am sure he is loving having you back and being able to breastfeed again. Hoping that you remain stable overnight and get the treatment that the doctors have clearly stated many times you need (for the benefit of those wilfully missing the point) tomorrow.

It does sound as if the scan was extremely suspect. I hope you manage to get the records, but maybe someone else could pursue that for you - you've got enough to deal with.

Tinyteatime · 27/06/2019 22:12

Thanks so much quincetofigs. This sounds like what I have. He spent Ages doing the US, after initially saying my womb was empty. He then spotted the collapsed sack and then saw some ‘flickering’ which he has interpreted. I feel sure that the heavy bleeding I had was not normal and not a normal miscarriage of pregnancy. I now feel happy that i have opted to have the surgery tomorrow. I am going in for 12 so for that I’m grateful but I shouldn’t really still be in this situation and I’m feeling nervous that I could bleed again before then. How likely is this? Is it likely to cause me any problems overnight? It sounds like I’ve had abysmal care from the start from gynes that don’t know how to deal with these situations as they refuse. To me this is dangerous and a ticking time bomb before someone life is put at risk.

OP posts:
Tinyteatime · 27/06/2019 22:27

Thanks to everyone on this thread. You’ve kept me from feeling helpless and alone today. I’m going to try and get some sleep now and hopefully my surgery will go smoothly tomorrow.

OP posts:
DuMondeB · 27/06/2019 22:35

Goodnight, Tinytea.

Wishing you well for tomorrow. If I were local I would be bringing you cake! Xx