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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

"maintenence shag"

64 replies

DuploTower · 25/06/2019 10:27

This was a couple of weeks ago, but it has since been rolling around in my head. Listening to late night woman's hour (I think) they were discussing "maintenence shags" sex you have, when you don't really fancy it, but have to do for the sake of the relationship.

This bothers me a bit. But maybe there's nothing wrong with a maintenence shag?

Is there?

OP posts:
Original poster
DuploTower · 25/06/2019 13:14

Thank you for your thoughts....

I've been very on the fence about it and wondered if there was some clear feminist consensus on this. I'm still on the fence, but I think that's OK. I share the attitude of most posters here...

It's comments like the 'loss of libido means your relationship is on last leg' that always worry me!

OP posts:
Goosefoot · 25/06/2019 14:19

What you are all talking about are respectful relationhsip though.
If you go onto the relationship threads or AIBU, youll see that its not he case for many many women.

If you aren't in a respectful relationship, and I think that means both respect for yourself and your partner, it doesn't really matter what you do or don't do, it won't make it respectful. Occasionally respect problems can be solved but often it's never going to become healthy.

But if you are in a respectful relationship, that kind of self-protection and lack of trust and lack of caring for the well-being of your partner is pretty likely to doom the whole thing, or at least make it miserable.

AppropriateAdult · 25/06/2019 14:47

I believe it is a massive issue to perpetuate the idea that women HAVE TO make an effort when we dont expect that from men (hell we dont expect them to give us an orgasm each time we have sex!). Because it blurs boundaries for women who already are vulnerable and feel like they 'ought to' (nice left over from the idea that a husband could never rape his wife etc...).
A maintenance shag can only exist within certain boundaries to still be acceptable. A general statement saying that a maintenance shag is a normal thing to do FOR WOMEN is an issue.

Well, sure, ComeAndDance. But nobody's saying that. The idea that we can't have a measured discussion about intimacy in LTRs because people could get the idea that "all women should have sex whenever their partner wants, even if they really don't feel like it" is ridiculous.

And, FWIW, I've had plenty of 'maintenance shags' over the years (and, like PPs, usually end up enjoying it even if I wasn't that bothered in the first place). I have never once faked an orgasm.

Lamaha · 25/06/2019 15:08

I don't think anyone should ever feel obliged to do this, but I think lots of women do it. The idea that not being physically interested in sex at all times means your relationship is "on its last leg" is, frankly, nonsense, and suggests somebody who has no experience of LTRs or of having young children.

I did it because I loved my husband very much and I knew how important it was for him. It wasn't at all important to me after I had children. I can live very well without sex and have done so for at least ten years and never expect to have it again. But it was important to him, so I did it.

We had a good, strong relationship beside sex and I dare anyone to tell me our relationship was on its last legs! I only wish he could have been capable of finding intimacy and closeness and joy in non-physical ways. In his last years he couldn't at all; he was bedridden and unable to communicate at all.

3timeslucky · 25/06/2019 16:32

@tellmewhenthespaceshiplandscoz
if that makes sense? I have a feeling it doesn't

It does to me Smile

I don't think of a maintenance shag as being in response to pressure. To me that's something else entirely. But the maintenance shag as part and parcel of the many things that each of us does with/for the other even if it is not top of our own personal wish list at that precise moment in time ... yeah I think that's ok.

deydododatdodontdeydo · 25/06/2019 16:43

If I was having sex due to pressure, I wouldn't call it a maintenance shag, I'd call it something else.

BickerinBrattle · 25/06/2019 17:00

Contrast the advice to women to do maintenance sex with the advice given to women whose DHs have been treated for prostate cancer and rendered impotent: to just learn to be happy with cuddling.

Men in that situation certainly aren’t exhorted to make sure to go down once a week in their wives lest the woman be unfulfilled and decide to stray.

Goosefoot · 25/06/2019 17:10

Um, eah, they do, why would you say otherwise?

it's not the same to say that someone should have sex when they actually can't have sex. Women find themselves in that position as well for health reasons at times and I don't imagine anyone here, or their doctors, are telling them to do it anyway.

And it's pretty common when either partner is not physically capable to have recommendations of other ways of having sex if it makes sense with whatever the problem is. (Obviously it wouldn't if the person was simply very ill with something like cancer.) You can find pretty detailed talk about it for example in discussions among disabled men and women.

Goosefoot · 25/06/2019 17:11

And no one is saying "lest the man be unfulfilled and decide to stray."

I don't even know how that comes into a serious discussion about a LTR other than to say someone who would do so is a dick.

YourSarcasmIsDripping · 25/06/2019 17:27

My libido went out the window at some point, it's not just having a baby thing because DD is nearly 8. OH doesn't pressure me and also rarely initiates because he respects my lack of interest. I still enjoy sex while we're doing it, but I feel no "need" for it. So yeah, I have initiated sex just for the sake of it because I couldn't even remember the last time we did it.

XenoBio · 25/06/2019 19:22

I dunno, I start it sometimes in the same spirit of 'you'll enjoy it when you get going' that I use for long dog walks and bike rides

This

Im terrible for task inertia. Even things I really enjoy. So if DH initiates I do try to ignore my first thought that I CBA with this. Because I know 20 seconds later I WILL be enjoying it.

museumum · 25/06/2019 19:27

I heard that women’s hour and the person who used that term went on to say that they never regretted it once they got going.
In that situation I agree 100%. It’s like going for a run, normally I think I really can’t be arsed but soon as I start I realise it’s fun.

SleepWarrior · 25/06/2019 19:52

The term is being used to mean myriad things, and I think that's causing some confusion.

If you go with it to keep a partner off your back, prevent a bad mood, stop them straying etc then that's a very different thing to making the effort to do something that you know you'll enjoy once it gets going for the sake of maintaining intimacy (even though you could easily have gone without).

YourSarcasmIsDripping · 25/06/2019 20:01

I think the issue is that when you are in a shit relationship,you are being pressured, and sulked at or worse, and he says that everyone does and what's wrong with you that you won't...and then go on to listen/read the same from other women the "good conditions " get lost/ignored.

tellmewhenthespaceshiplandscoz · 25/06/2019 20:07

Sarcasm - agree.

Goosefoot · 25/06/2019 20:10

Oh, I'd have sex to put my husband in a good mood. He is a grumpy old fart. Totally worth it.

Charley50 · 25/06/2019 21:23

I dunno, I start it sometimes in the same spirit of 'you'll enjoy it when you get going' that I use for long dog walks and bike rides

Grin me too.

KTara · 25/06/2019 21:42

I think there is a massive difference between sex because you value the sexual connection with your partner and think you will get into it when you get going, and sex where you do it because you have been coerced in some way and it is the only way to get the pestering to stop.

Which I have just realised other posters have said in different words.

Goosefoot · 25/06/2019 22:59

Nagging is really off-putting no matter what it's about, isn't it? I hate it when I get nagged, it almost makes me want to do the opposite thing.

Nagging spouses often feel justified about it though. And they can be in the sense that it may be the other person is not doing their part in some element of the relationship, they are being passive aggressive or something like that. Some of that isn't so applicable to sex though I have seen people avoid sex as a sort of passive-aggressive act too.

None of them are really fruitful approaches though, not doing your part, or nagging, being passive aggressive. They might be natural but they tend to make things worse.

Lamaha · 26/06/2019 05:45

If you go with it to keep a partner off your back, prevent a bad mood, stop them straying etc then that's a very different thing to making the effort to do something that you know you'll enjoy once it gets going for the sake of maintaining intimacy (even though you could easily have gone without).

I never enjoyed it even once it got going. It was as if I'd outgrown it and the whole thing just felt ridiculous to me. I did it for him the way I would read books again and again to a child, or play with their toys them even though I didn't have any urge to play with toys myself.
You do it for them, because you love them.

Original poster
DuploTower · 26/06/2019 06:20

"It was as if I'd outgrown it and the whole thing just felt ridiculous to me."

Gosh - this is me, exactly. I've never seen it articulated before so spot on.

OP posts:
MajesticWhine · 26/06/2019 07:07

I think a bit of maintenance sex can be important in a long term relationship. It should be a caring act and should not involve pestering, nagging or pressure. I am a couple therapist and I don't see this is a feminist issue necessarily, although it does depend on the situation.

RedSheep73 · 26/06/2019 07:11

Sometimes you have to do things you don't really fancy for the good of the relationship, don't you? like listening to him witter on about his hobbies. But having said that if you do agree to a shag under those circs it's his responsibility to make sure you enjoy it, no faking orgasms. I've never understood why anyone does that?

Lamaha · 26/06/2019 07:42

He did many things for me he did not enjoy. I persuaded him to step on an airplane on a transatlantic flight -- his first flight ever, and he was terrified? We made another long distance flight and he was always terrified.

But having said that if you do agree to a shag under those circs it's his responsibility to make sure you enjoy it, no faking orgasms. I've never understood why anyone does that?

He did not have to do that. I did not want or need an orgasm and did not expect him to make that effort. It would have been a waste of time.

ComeAndDance · 26/06/2019 09:37

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3621842-Postpartum-Prolapse-Sex-Pest-DH

This thread is exactly why I have an issue with ‘maintenance shag’
Poor woman is 8weeks post partum, has had a birth from hell, a prolapse etc... but still tried to have sex with DH for his sake.

Ignoring that women have been conditioned to provide sex to men and that this is a given is an issue when talking about ‘maintenance shag’ aka having sex when you dint really feel like it.
Also worth remembering that MEN will hear that too and what they will hear is ‘it’s normal for my partner to have sex when she doesn’t feel like it. She just needs to make an effort for me —because I’m entitled to sex—‘

And YY about the fact maintenance shag can have different meanings. But as it’s used in a various situations wo the context, it’s also easy to see how it can be used a stick to beat women with. Or just a way to carry in certain cultural expectations (which also means women then feel they HAVE TO make an effort to have sex when they dint want to)