Decision on abortion overturned at appeal

[FakeUsername]

www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jun/24/catholic-church-hits-out-at-court-over-abortion-ruling

Thought I’d highlight it here as the main thread was here

Thought there would be an appeal process, and now it’s overturned. I wonder what their reasoning is? I did think it’s a leap to assume a termination would be easier on the woman than taking the baby away after birth. Can we really say that for this specific woman?

Good news and common sense.

MangoFeverDream the judge likened the woman's interest in having a baby as like having a doll. Suggesting she would not be able to care for the baby in the usual way. Which I completely agree with.

But it does suggest the loss of the baby might be less stressful for this woman than for other women if she could not really see the baby as a baby, if you see what I mean.

Either way I think this is a massive thing for the family, who will need to cope with the outcome and this is much better than the alternative of a woman being forced to have an abortion.

Plenty of celebrities splashed across the media on a daily basis who seem to view their children as little more than a doll or accessory.

I haven't read the other thread so forgive me if I'm covering old ground, but it doesn't seem to be being talked about.

If this woman doesn't have legal capacity to consent (which seems to be the case) why isn't anyone looking for the person who impregnated her and caused all this stress and worry and fear for her?

@InTheHeatofLisbon the article mentions there’s is a police investigation

Little girls love babies and don't treat them as dolls if we're going down that route, but it's already been linked in the other thread that "mental age" is not a good or accurate way to measure someone's emotional and mental capacity.

This is a good decision. Forced abortion is equally as bad as forced birth. That's what "choice" in pro-choice refers to - a woman's right to make her own reproductive choices.

Good. I was only half way through the last thread and it seemed to me that forcing a woman to have an abortion was a violation of their human rights. It is a very slippery slope if we as a society start down that road. Disabled people are not less human and not less deserving of dignity and support than non-disabled people.

I think it’s a terribly sad situation but suspect the young woman’s mother is best placed to determine what is in her daughters best interests and to understand what her daughter would be most distressed by. I’m not sure an elderly man, however lauded would be as empathetic.
The Catholicism may well be a red herring; there are plenty of pro choice Catholics.
That said I haven’t read the full rulings so am going on instinct alone. I do find the eugenics aspect of this of concern though.

This was framed as a pro-life case and a religious case, which it obviously was to some extent.

But most people seemed to miss out that it was a savage attack on the rights and dignified of those with disabilities.

Those showboating their ‘professional’ knowledge in order to argue for the impeccability of the judge’s decision demonstrated how easy it is to dehumanise people and trample all over their rights, to commit atrocities in the name of compassion.

^dignity not dignified.

Wow, I feel this thread has a totally different tone from what I read on the first one (though I only read the early bits of that one).

I agree with the majority feeling here - the woman's feelings should not be disregarded here. Her and her mother's (assumed) feelings that this advanced pregnancy is a baby, not just a clump of cells, should be respected. There's no way we would insist that such an advanced (clearly wanted) pregnancy isn't really a baby, no way we would say that to a woman who had a distressing late miscarriage. To intervene and prevent something which would be the natural consequence against the wishes of those involved, however neuro typical or otherwise they might be, seems barbaric.

But I appreciate I am talking from a position of ignorance about all the facts in this case, and there might be many more complicating factors.

That's great news. Forced termination is never acceptable under any reason. It actually saddens me that women on fwr actually argued in defence of it.

FakeUsername thanks, that's what I get for skim reading. Everything I'd (inadequately) read seemed to gloss over that which worried me.

Poor woman seems to have so many people speaking for her, her own voice is being lost.

The other key question remains... who raped this woman? I hope he is found and prosecuted

I think forced termination is a very slippery slope.

I know nothing is ever black or white, but I always thought it was all about a woman's right to choose? Where does society draw the line in terms of mental incapacity?

I'm glad they listened to the woman, her family and her social worker.

22 weeks as well ffs. Imagine the absolute horror of being taken for an abortion against your will. At 22 weeks.

This is a sick mess all round.

sunkisses
Agreed, hopefully they will do DNA tests

KTara, Carowiththegoodhair and DoYouRememberTheInnMiranda and others, excellent points.

If the referebxe yo eldeely man was to the judge, the judge is a woman.

"circumstances of conception were unclear and the police investigation was continuing"

The circumstances of conception are clear. She was raped.

The lack of clarity is horrendous.

The sole focus has been the foetus and what happens to that.

She has a mental capacity of between 6 and 9 years old yet the media seem to be completely glossing over that.

She deserves better.

@InTheHeatofLisbon the reasons for the appeal being overturned are not yet realised so it just speculation that they have considered the foetus.

I took unclear as to mean they don’t know who or how fathered the baby. If it is another adult with severe LD it is not rape as he cannot be found guilty, but it may be negligence/ harm caused by those caring for the pair or them.

I don’t think it helps to speculate like this, both agendas of extremes cloud the issue

Glad the decision was reversed. A court-ordered abortion seems an extreme solution to what is a very distressing situation.

Thank goodness! The determination on the other thread to refer to 'a bunch of cells' and 'forcing her to give birth and give away her baby' were awful. If this woman knows she is pregnant and that pregnancy results in a baby, then she is likely to think an abortion killed her baby. What a horror that would be for her.

Terrible situation.

Poor baby, I hope they have the good sense to make a good decision about who will raise it well before she gives birth.

I hope it wasn’t just a decision made because of her pro-life mother, on the basis she doesn’t agree with abortion and actually was made in the woman’s best interests.
What a sad situation.

The circumstances of conception are clear. She was raped

No. Not at all clear.
'Mental age' comparisons for adults with LD's are too simplistic. I know of many people with LD's who enjoy an active sex life, both men and women.