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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Decision on abortion overturned at appeal

34 replies

FakeUsername · 24/06/2019 23:47

www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jun/24/catholic-church-hits-out-at-court-over-abortion-ruling

Thought I’d highlight it here as the main thread was here

OP posts:
Carowiththegoodhair · 25/06/2019 08:28

The original decision was made on hypotheticals. Whether or not the woman would develop psychosis later in pregnancy (she hasn’t yet) and the likelihood of how she would react IF the baby needed to be taken into care.

GrapefruitsAreNotTheOnlyFruit · 17/07/2019 00:27

Just posting a link to the judgement here so that people can read it if they wish.

www.judiciary.uk/judgments/re-ab-termination-of-pregnancy/

I think after reading this some of the things that were said on the original thread about the role of the social worker and official solicitor in the court of protection were incorrect.

Gingerkittykat · 17/07/2019 14:47

Thanks for the link, it cleared up a lot of questions.

GrapefruitsAreNotTheOnlyFruit · 17/07/2019 21:30

To be honest it raised loads more questions in my mind. If anything I was left feeling even more sorry for the pregnant woman with learning disabilities after I had read it. It sounds an unusual upbringing.

It also seems really weird that the original judge decided one of the reasons it would be in her best interests to have an abortion would be because her mother might look after the baby and she might have to move out , given that she wasn't even living with her mother at the time of the hearing???

I have to say I agree with the argument by her mother's solicitor that to go against the wishes of a woman without capacity and order an abortion a higher threshold should be met. The same one that enables abortions to be carried out after 24 weeks e.g. compelling medical reasons.

But that wasn't what the appeal judges concluded. They felt that insufficient weight had been given to the wishes of the woman. And to her mother and to her social worker and to the opinion of the official solicitor who interviewed her. And that the medical evidence was only that 'on balance' the abortion would be better than continuing with the pregnancy. They also noted the difficulty of abortion at that stage of pregnancy which was something that came up on the original thread.

To me it seems that we need better safeguarding of the rights of women with learning disabilities and/or mental illnesses who are pregnant. I dont think their wishes should be overridden except under extreme circumstances.

It also sounds like there are problems with the system. It took 11 weeks from her mother noticing she was pregnant to the matter getting to court. There is obviously a massive difference between being 12 weeks pregnant and 23 weeks pregnant.

sakura184 · 18/07/2019 09:55

I'm glad she wasn't forced to terminate. I hope she can somehow keep her baby with help, maybe the grandmother.
I hope there is an investigation into why someone who was judged incapable of having a baby because of her mental age (whatever that means) was having intercourse because it sounds to me like she's been targeted by a predator, although I might be wrong of course. It might have been a mutual relationship. I'm just saying it sounds to me that she's been had by a predator

GrapefruitsAreNotTheOnlyFruit · 18/07/2019 13:23

It seems to happened in a foreign country so I don't know how much the police will be able to do

Sadly having read the full judgement I struggle to see a good outcome for this young woman. Though I think this was a better outcome than the original decision.

In general I worry about the rights of pregnant women with learning disabilities and/or mental health problems.

Frankly as relates to terminations, pregnancy and birth I feel from personal experience that articulate, well educated women struggle to make their wishes known to medical professionals so goodness knows what happens to vulnerable women.

Outanabout · 18/07/2019 15:44

Earlywalker

I hope it wasn’t just a decision made because of her pro-life mother,

Do someone's wishes not count if they're pro-life?

SweetJasmine17 · 18/07/2019 15:46

Right, outanabout

She still might not want an abortion even if she was pro-choice. No need to vilify prolifers when her own daughter didn't want an abortion and many prochoicers admit the previous ruling was insane and a violation oh human rights.

Branleuse · 18/07/2019 15:50

im really pleased. Im absolutely 100% pro choice. Im as vehemently opposed to forced abortion as much as forced birth.

The fact that she doesnt understand the impact of having a baby is neither here nor there. The fact is, she is pregnant, and I dont think a doctor would be able to forgive themselves forcing this procedure on a woman.

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