Help me peaktrans DH

[maslinpan]

We haven't been able to discuss the many terrifying elements of the trans rights agenda in a constructive way. I am a lifelong feminist, DH is as supportive as they come, has mainly female colleagues who he deeply respects, and he wants DD (14) to do and be whatever she wants.
He had a MTF flatmate years ago who was receiving counselling, waiting for surgery, and was a very private person who just wanted to live their life. I think that is his only model of a trans woman, and he is loyal to that memory - not that they have kept in touch at all, so can't ask them what they think. He is an academic who has some awareness of student politics - rainbow flag waving very proudly at his uni - but I think he feels they have very little influence and relevance to anyone else. I pointed him to FPFW but he found a statistic which he thought was not very reliable, so he is quite dismissive of that source. How can I persuade him that my concerns are real, pressing, and relevant to all girls and women? Twitter threads won't do the trick, I need cold hard facts with lots of evidence. The resource thread It could never happen is great, but what else?

"he only looks at the Guardian and the BBC" - there's your problem right there.

The thing with the news sources, it's hard for people because a lot of them have been trained for years to see those as the reliable sources. My mother is like this to some extent with the CBC, even though she has become disenchanted with them in many ways. But she can't quite believe that they are suppressing information to the extent they do, like in the women's sport issue.

For my DH it was trans women in women’s sports (being a fan of all sports).
He was very much of the “oh that’ll never happen” mindset, so I showed him that actually it is happening as we speak.
He was shocked, and it opened up the conversation about everything else.
He was flabbergasted and completely peak transed.

Men seem to live very insulated lives, so many things can be ignored until something happens to make it personal and therefore meaningful.
If they can't empathise with their own wives and daughters is there any point trying to engage?

James Kirkup (Spectator) has written a series of excellent, evidence based articles.
There are many threads on here discussing them

Its worth advance searching & sharing them.

(I think The Spectator has an offer on at the moment for a limited time so they can be accessed)

Most of FPFW’s statistics are skewed, Particularly the statistics relating to prisoners.

This is not true.

If EarlyWalker has specific evidence of this then it would be a useful contribution to reasoned discussion. If however EarlyWalker doesn't have specific evidence, its somewhat disingenous/goady to cast spurious allegations (in my opinion)

Yes I’d also like to see some evidence on these skewed statistics .

Magdalen Bern's videos are brilliant for this. The stonewall one in particular. She's funny and thorough.

I think most people have a hard time seeing an issue until it affects them. Lots of women have no real sense about the effects of pregnancy and mothering on women's lives until they are in that place themselves. It's not peculiar to men.
I assume women are similarly insulated to many issues that affect men.

Sure, for starters when you click onto FPFW’s website to view this page (I went back to check Incase they amended the way they showed it since I last looked) it says this in bold font:

Half of all transgender prisoners are sex offenders or dangerous category A inmates

This is to deliberately mislead you. The truth is that there are 60 transgender inmates in prison for sex offences or needing max security. This is the only fact they have.
This is out of 125 inmates who had a consultation on their trans status, who were therefore serving a longer prison sentence and excludes what the majority of crimes are for (shoplifting, things like that)
A huge majority of prisoners serve under 4 years.

I could use the same statistic and say:

Only 0.009% of self identified transwoman are sex offenders

660k trans people in the UK (based on 1% of the population, although I think this is actually higher now in which case it would be less) only 60 in prison for sexual or significant crimes. This is 0.009%.

Do you see the point in making? That statistics can show whatever you want them to show if you’re bias.

The same numbers quoted there could also headline:

transwoman commit crimes at a lower rate than woman

Couldn’t you?

I told DP he needed to start thinking about his young DDs growing up with this shite.

Explained all the things that will likely need to deal with at some point. The perverts shouting things to girls in school uniform, being gropped in nightclubs, constantly having to be on alert or being afraid to walk alone in the dark. If a girl is raped, everything is done to prove SHE was asking for it because the poor men just can't help themselves. Pressure for porn type sex acts etc

Women grow up knowing they are prey and by making everything mixed sex is putting all women and girls even more at risk from the many predatory men who will happily take advantage of the lapse in safeguarding and giving them no safe spaces away from men.

If this gets forced on us they will grow up never being allowed to have any boundaries or privacy from males.

The perv with his cock out in the female changing room can't be challenged. Girls being told to except it is grooming on a mass scale. Grown males claiming to be more "vulnerable" than female children.

The fact that a few years ago, all the major LGBT charities and public would have told the person with a penis, trying to get a lesbian to sleep with him, a homophobic bigot and that it was conversion therapy.
Now that same lesbian is being told her sexuality is now meaningless and if she wont sleep with a penis then SHE is a trans phobic bigot.

All the highly qualified, intelligent women in academia and politics hounded out because they won't play along with the bullshit. Threatened and attacked because they say no.

Lesbians are now not allowed to say they are same sex attracted but attracted to the magic gender identity so it includes males. Whilst celebrity gay men (who are not told they must accept trans men) pretend they don't know what a woman is until they need to rent a womb for 9 months!

This whole thing has little to no effect on men as a whole but women's rights being taken away benefits them so they just turn a blind eye.

...sigh...no Earlywalker, sorry, you are talking bullshit. Its very easy to show this. BBC factcheck here:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42221629

Stop making things up.

Read again another bbc says the same that I did

That statistics can show whatever you want them to show if you’re bias

Yeah, just like the bullshit, emotive suicide stats, or the use of murder stats of South American sex workers to try to prove how dangerous it is for trans women in the UK when in fact they are the safest group here.

I always have to fact check stats now, even then it's hard to find the truth as the office of national statistics have stated that they haven't got official figures on trans people in the UK, it is a estimate and it's based on GRCs.

Stats will always be manipulated and essentially you have to go with what you believe to be a trustworthy or official source, it's fine if you don't think FPFW is trustworthy. I think it is. The BBC is a broadcaster and has an agenda, same with the Guardian or any media outlet. We all have to make up our own minds.

Here’s something to ponder

Yes, Whatsnewpussyhat that may we’ll be the case. However just because TRAs May be grooming the public to following their narrative, doesn’t mean GC organisations aren’t capable of and doing it too.

I hope the person who accused me of ‘talking bullshit and making things up’ returns as it’s quite an accusation to make without backing up why, or apologising when you realise you are wrong.

Lesbian penis? That one is hard to justify.

Ask him if he's happy for Karen White to follow you or your dd into the ladies once he gets out of prison. When you're out and about point out all the men and ask the same question about them. Any one of them could be "identifying" as women, it takes nothing else now to access all female areas. Does he mind you sharing private spaces with them, because that's what trans rights mean now.

Would he (if he was a single man) happily sleep with a transwoman?

If not why not? I mean after all if TWAW what difference does and extra penis really make huh?

btw if he wouldn't then he is a transphobe.

I'm conflicted between thinking that you should let people form their own opinions and between alternatively thinking that maybe he hasn't seen both sides of the story (although I'm sure you've probably given him a rundown).

Would you be happy with him trying to drip feed you TRA stuff if the tables were turned? If not, then maybe that's your answer.

I don't trust stats easily not only due to trust issues but because I think people very often don't manage them well. They get them wrong by mistake, even people who you'd think should be able to tell.

I can never understand why someone would want to change someone's opinion.
Debate, yes, argue, yes.
I would be quite pissed off if someone starting attacking my position on anything. Give me a reasoned argument, but then leave me be to come to my own conclusions.