Teacher filmed incident in Mail with comments from here...

[Awning10]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7158017/Pupil-thrown-class-reprimanded-teacher-saying-two-genders.html

Last night Seamus Searson, general secretary of the Scottish Secondary Teachers' Association, said he did not have any knowledge of the case, but added: 'This sounds like a youngster looking for trouble.'

Brings it all back for this atheist troublemaker, getting kicked out of RE classes.

Yes, I had the exact same words said to me during my school years. School don't like critical thinkers, they label us the trouble makers, shame on them

Bloody youngsters thinking they understand biology...

The boy was 17 - seventeen! He should be allowed to discuss his opinions and alternative views in class, that isn't making trouble. It is engaging in critical thinking, academic debate and questioning ideology. If that isn't allowed at 17, at that level of education, when the hell is it allowed?

Related stories - makes it look like there is a connection between this behaviour and the murder of two transwomen in America.

Debate and (at minimum) teaching tolerance for alternate belief systems should be standard in schools. Teachers need to be able to say that some people believe there are multiple genders while not punishing those who state otherwise. Just as they (generally) acknowledge that some people believe that there is a god they have a personal relationship with and others don't.

The way the ideology is now centred in schools is terrifying.

Last night Seamus Searson, general secretary of the Scottish Secondary Teachers' Association, said he did not have any knowledge of the case, but added: 'This sounds like a youngster looking for trouble.'

The local authority pointed to a legal duty for the public sector to have 'due regard' to certain 'protected characteristics' – including age, sex and 'gender reassignment'.

Gender identity is not a protected characteristic, so the implication there are 'many genders' is not part of Equality Act 2010.

An Aberdeenshire Council spokesman said: 'As part of our Public Sector Equality Duty we aim to: eliminate discrimination, harassment and victimisation; advance equality of opportunity between those who have protected characteristics and those who don't; and foster good relations between those who have protected characteristics and those who don't.

Policies which prevent discussion are not going to achieve this.
Sex is a protected characteristic which seems increasingly denied.

Whilst I agree with what the teenager was saying - and that his arguments were both stronger and more eloquent than the teacher, who really didn’t seem to know what he was talking about - as a teacher myself it was completely unacceptable for the pupil to film and then put this online. For me, that completely detracts from what he’s saying. If I was filmed arguing from the other way around I would feel extremely vulnerable so I cannot condone this.

Brings it all back for this atheist troublemaker, getting kicked out of RE classes

Yep

At the time i even went to church...still got kicked out of the church classes

Ahaha DS1 had similar issues in RE in fairness most teachers were understanding except for one straight out of college. Wanted them to write an essay about “Why they believe in God”. Raised his hand and said I can’t do that because I don’t. He offered to write on a religious related subject. No dice. Off to the year coordinator’s office. On the way pestered with questions “Are you ok?” Is there problems at home?” WTF he explained what the issue was. He finally had enough and told him to fuck off and leave him alone. Cue phone call “Hello Mrs Dana” (Christ what’s he done now 😖) year 9 is such a delightful year. DS2 is in it now thankfully he’s less rebellious than his brother, but still an atheist.

as a teacher myself it was completely unacceptable for the pupil to film and then put this online.
When teachers are willing to throw pupils out of class for stating an unacceptable opinion, then that is vastly more unacceptable than a student wanting to protect themselves and have evidence as to what exactly was said. He has the video, he can show that he was polite, and what exactly the stated reason was for him being ejected.

There are either only two genders (if you think gender is inextricably linked to sex, or just being used as a synonym for sex), or an infinite number (if you think gender is more about personality).

This is akin to kids being kicked out of class for stating they don't believe in god, and the 'inclusivity' appealed to here is akin to saying -- 'yes, we know you're a devil-driven atheist, but don't cause trouble and say so 'cos it upsets the religious kids, and you're being non-inclusive if you keep shoving your unacceptable opinion down our throats.....'

I'm still stunned by how quickly it has become unacceptable to say anywhere that your opinion of your gender is only that, subjective opinion not objective fact. Because inclusivity and being 'nice'..............

It's an infantile way to try and sort out how to organise society where there are always going to be conflicting rights and conflicting opinions, whether that is the significance of gender, the meaning of woman (sex or gender), the reality of god, the ethics of homosexual acts, but just trying to prevent the problematic belief being stated 'cos it upsets people, whether that is 'there are only 2 sexes', or that 'my religion says homosexual acts are a sin', stopping people speaking is not the solution, pretending or trying to make us all pretend we agree is not the solution.

Thankfully some kids are still stroppy enough to kick-back! Well done!

as a teacher myself it was completely unacceptable for the pupil to film and then put this online.

What other options did he have in this instance? A teacher is telling him, incorrectly, that his freedom of speech about scientific facts is not allowed and is against school policy.

Givenchy - I think it's justifiable. A teacher was talking rubbish - because of "guidance" from on high - and unfairly penalising a student for telling the truth.

Teachers are accountable too. Everyone should be accountable. This comes firmly under the whistleblower category IMO. Murray should be very proud of himself, and Murray's parents, can be very proud that they've raised a son who is not afraid to politely challenge authority.

Actually, I am not completely at odds with the teacher.

I completely agree with the boy, but that moment may not have been the time to have the conversation. Sometimes as a teacher, you may have 15 points to impart before the end of the lesson. You don't want to discuss them, just to deliver them. Other times, you can discuss the price of tea in China for as long as you like.

I don't know what kind of activity this class was engaged in, but it is not always possible to discuss and debate every issue.

You can’t make outrageous claims and then say you don’t have time to discuss it. Kids aren’t there to take things on trust. If you can’t back up an argument then don’t make it.

If they were teaching Intelligent Design or the world was flat or Copernicus was wrong (I.e. a scientifically proven lie) you wouldn't blink about a kid calling them out. I don't see any difference here. A lie is a lie. Why is this an exception?

@picklemepopcorn If you read the previous thread the background is that the boy was in a PHSE lesson and, according to him, the teacher was showing the class how to access a particular website.

The website required registration and the teacher spent some time explaining how bad it was that there were only two options for gender given on the registration form.

(This shows the problem with conflating gender and sex)

At this point the boy stated the position that there are only two genders and, at some point, was told to leave the classroom. About 30 mins later, again according to the boy, the teacher came out of the lesson and what we see in the video happened.

if I was filmed arguing from the other way around I would feel extremely vulnerable so I cannot condone this
This. And seems more likely to happen, tbh.

Ah, I didn't have that context. I'd wondered if it cropped up as a side issue in a separate subject, or as part of the annual run through of school values.

If the teacher actually chose to bring that up as part of accessing a website, then he needs to have had a blooming strong position to defend. Which he didn't, obviously.

That said, if he's drunk the cool aid because his son is now called Sally then I may still have some sympathy. But he's ignorant.

Teachers all too often fall for sharing their own hobby horse opinion while not being prepared to tolerate others.

“he did not have any knowledge of the case, but added: 'This sounds like a youngster looking for trouble.'”

If he has no knowledge of the case he should surely STFU until he does, rather than jump to conclusions about a young person.

And there needs to be a distinction between what actually happened in the interchange, and the act of putting it online.

I can see that filming it and putting it online is an issue, and a serious one. But especially given the attitudes towards young people and their testimony ( see above.....) how else can we know what is going on?

This ‘how many fingers am I holding up?’ Regime is approaching intellectual abuse. It is gaslighting. It is the denial of evidence and reason. It has no place in education.

We need to find a way to be respectful and inclusive of all young people, especially those grappling with things that do still attract discrimination and disdain, without resorting to cult-like brainwashing of science.

This really should not be beyond the capability of teachers, lawmakers, policy makers if they just focus on the job and block out the noise.

As a teacher you are an agent of the state essentially and thus should be open to scrutiny. There is a public interest dimension to this in the same way as if a police officer were to abuse his/her office.

Education should be about teaching children how to think and not what to think. I appreciate you are put under a lot of pressure to meet targets and I have every sympathy, but the net result of that pressure of league tables, box ticking and ofstead inspections means teachers are given less and less freedom to do their jobs well, and to produce a conveyer belt of students with the right opinions.

People are flabbergasted how we have marched into this bizzaro world where truth and objective reality are being suffocated. This is why.

But is the teacher not also wrong on his own terms? I wasn’t aware that Gender recognition went beyond male or female? So there are two sexes and two possible genders, so someone whose sex is female can take on male gender identity in law and vice versa, but surely identifying as genderqueer or genderfluid or any other gender identity is not enshrined in law, but the teacher seems to be stating that a range of genders are supported in law…So even if the premise that there are many genders is accepted the facts about these are still incorrect. Or am I missing something here?

Teacher tries to brainwash students with lies.
One student challenges the lies and is thrown out of class.
It then escalates with the teacher engaged in a one to one with the student, showing the teacher rapidly losing self control, whilst still trying to force the student to believe in lies.
Good job the student had the presence of mind to film this, or we would be doubting his side of the story.

Teenager, 17, suspended from school for insisting there are 'only two genders' reveals he spoke out in protest at 'dangerous views being forced on pupils‘

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7171195/Teenager-17-insisted-two-genders-suspended-school.html

Well I’m guessing he’s suspended because of the filming not his opinion.

Well I’m guessing he’s suspended because of the filming not his opinion.

An Aberdeenshire Council spokesman said the public sector has a legal duty to show ‘due regard’ to certain ‘protected characteristics’ – including age, sex and ‘gender reassignment’.

He added: ‘It is important to understand the context of any video clip taken without a person’s consent. In our schools, fostering good relations among different groups can be a real challenge but our aim is to support a fairer, inclusive environment for all.’