In plain sight - 'Are Pride Parades Kid-Friendly? Parents Say Children Can Handle The Kink'

[EweSurname]

The post asked parade participants not to “sexualize” Pride and to leave their fetish and kink at home, for the sake of minors.

A reasonable request, one might have thought. But no.

“At some level this has always been part of a much larger debate of what Pride is,” David Rayside, a retired politics and sexual diversity professor at the University of Toronto, told HuffPost Canada. “Pride has always had a kind of outrageous edge to it. And should we alter that? It is not the Santa Claus parade, and it never was. It shouldn’t be. It can’t be.”

[...]Putting on her sex therapist hat, Ren emphasized that Pride, from kink to nakedness, is an excellent opportunity for parents to do unbiased sex education. Bergman also pointed out that many children don’t even interpret most of what they’re seeing in a Pride parade as sexual, but rather as dress-up or fun.

The whole point of kink is that it's sexual, surely? Why are children encouraged to view sexual content? Calling it "dress-up" doesn't alter what it is.

www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/pride-parade-kid-friendly_ca_5d013916e4b0dc17ef03287b

I think there are people who like to be "sexually deviant". I knew lesbians and gay men who did not like when it became more acceptable to be lesbian/gay. Not a mainstream view, but it was there. So yes on the fringes there is a connection.

I knew lesbians and gay men who did not like when it became more acceptable to be lesbian/gay.
That's a good point. A bit like how people claim to miss the old dangerous New York of the 70s and 80s, many gay people miss the subversive element of being part of what was basically an underground movement.
But for all the excitement of word of mouth groups and clubs you had to knock on the door to enter, things are safer now.
I appreciate that safety.
Mind you, I didn't want gay marriage, I wanted the creases ironed out of civil partnership because I didn't want to be the same as straight people. Many homosexual people took this view, probably not the majority but a fair few. I don't care much one way or the other now but I was angry at the time. It seemed a cynical attempt by Cameron to win votes.

So I guess I understand that desire to be different. I still don't think hardcore kink should be out on the streets any more than public defecation should be.

No I agree.
But just saying that I think there is a link at the extreme edges between lesbian and in particular gay people, and kink.

“First of all, nobody likes nakedness more than children,” Bergman said

That is not a reason for allowing children to see naked adults. I’m going to be crass here but kids also like touching their genitals, do we let them watch adults doing the same? No we fucking don’t. What a stupid thing to say.

there is a link at the extreme edges between lesbian and in particular gay people, and kink
There is, I agree. For me it's a shame that the majority (of homosexual people) has been browbeaten into accepting this as the public face of homosexuality. I don't accept kink, the commerciality of Pride, or anything to do with Stonewall as representative of me. Hence my facetious first answer above.

At what point did Pride get taken over by the money men?

Is this about the time it became about selling kink, instead of representing LGB, I wonder?

No, the phenomenon of the pink pound was a big deal back in the 90s. I'd like to be able to blame the kinky lot for that but I can't really

Yes, the pink pound was a thing, but I don't remember Pride being the corporate fest is is now?

Everything has become corporatised, I would tie it in with that rather than anything related to the specific political issue.

A lot of the things talked about that are controversial here - the stuff with safeguarding, trans issues, etc, are very closely related to the kink edge. I'm not gay so I don't really have skin in the game, but if it affected my I think I would be looking at really trying to sever that link, or figure out what the substance of it is. At a guess I would say that many people who are into that scene like sex that seems transgressive, whatever it is, and also have trained themselves to try all kinds of things which might not be immediately appealing or have anything to do with affection or relationship. It's sexuality as a kink, not as an orientation.
It could put certain things, equal marriage maybe, but certainly how we talk to young people about sex more generally, in a different light.

I think that's at the root of a lot of what feminists are fighting right now - it boils down to money.

All the "sex work is work" nonsense is obviously us fighting the money behind the sex industry.

The trans industry is commodifying our children's bodies and sex lives and medicalising them for profit.

And Pride is about selling kink and woke cookies.

Capitalism is the huge elephant in the room.

While we have capitalism and the patriarchy, it'll continue to twist everything. It'll be one battle after another, and it won't stop till those of us who stand against it are defeated or capitalism ends.

(Apologies for such gloomy thoughts).

I agree about capitalism.

I think sex would insert itself even without it though, it's such a powerful drive.

I sometimes think that it's because we are so rich that people can pursue sex so single-mindedly. If you are working the land all day and going home to your one room cabin you share with six kids, you might not be so keen to bring out the gimp suit.

Yep the “kids can handle the kinks” comment is gross. They shouldn’t have to. I don’t want to fucking see it either. But then I wouldn’t go because of that shit and I wouldn’t take my kids because people can’t keep their kinks behind closed doors anymore, kinks are being lorded as if they are a sexual preference. It’s bollocks.

Why on earth would anyone take their kids to Pride?

It's not for kids. Anymore than a nightclub or a conference.

But for all the excitement of word of mouth groups and clubs you had to knock on the door to enter, things are safer now.

It’s the feminists who are having to do that now. Background checks & referees before being able to join groups, and meeting venues announced at the last minute. I don’t think it’s an improvement.

Why on earth would anyone take their kids to Pride?

They often encourage it. Even has special activities for kids.

Plus, they are in public, on the street. If they are going to be kink festivals they should have to go to private venues like sex festivals.

Why on earth would anyone take their kids to Pride?
Because our kids have been indoctrinated on Reddit and Tumblr and Insta and identify as gay, bi, pan and trans, and believe Pride is for them. And if we don’t take them we are homophobic or, worse! Transphobic, and therefore fit for nothing.

I think that's at the root of a lot of what feminists are fighting right now - it boils down to money

I agree. My niece is a minor Instagram celebrity and she’s having a pride party to which we were invited. I declined, explaining that I couldn’t support anything associated with Pride because of its lesbophobia.

She basically replied with the predicable “ you’re a transphobe, it’s not true “ etc.

But when I showed her evidence from Get the L Out, she just said that basically she doesn’t care because it’s good for business , it goes down well with their followers.

She lesbian BTW. It’s all about the money.

It’s the feminists who are having to do that now. Background checks & referees before being able to join groups, and meeting venues announced at the last minute. I don’t think it’s an improvement.
Two different things. As a lesbian, I don't get attacked in the street any more. Improvement. I can get a job without being laughed out of the interview. Improvement. As a feminist, yeah, I have to do as you've mentioned above, and that clearly is not an improvement.
Ironically as a lesbian, as opposed to "generic homosexual person" there's more of the word of mouth stuff. That's because for practical purposes like socialising with other lesbians or finding a partner, cloak and dagger is the only way to avoid being vastly outnumbered by transwomen. A friend of mine showed me her matches on an online dating service and the majority were transwomen, and by transwomen I mean most had full facial hair but identified as transwomen.

If I was a lesbian I’d be fucking furious at biological men taking over my dating sites and social spaces. They have the rest of the world to dominate.

Ironically as a lesbian, as opposed to "generic homosexual person" there's more of the word of mouth stuff. That's because for practical purposes like socialising with other lesbians or finding a partner, cloak and dagger is the only way to avoid being vastly outnumbered by transwomen.

Yes. I was weighing up whether to talk about feminists or lesbians in my previous post (& of course plenty of us are in both categories).

I came out in the late 90s when Section 28 was still around, first in Hull but then I moved to London soon after. In both places I instantly found a vibrant, warm & welcoming lesbian community. Actual lesbians. Pub nights, bars, discos, discussion groups, book groups, Lesbian Lines. And the nearest LGB bookshop, cafe or community group would actually have fliers for them.

I miss that so much. And I feel so sorry for the young lesbians of today who never had it.

I miss that so much. And I feel so sorry for the young lesbians of today who never had it.
Agreed

Some of the statements in the OP are pretty awful. But in terms of what you see, this is nothing new with Pride. I agree with the comment that the issue is really about the number of straight people with kids seeing it as a family day out

City centres are public spaces, and 'straight people with kids' have just as much right to be there as anyone.

Can't see what BDSM costumes and overtly sexualised behaviour has to do with the original intention of 'Pride'. It's not just a bit of hand holding of kissing.

Of course so much of the gay scene has now been taken up with transgressive sexuality and sexual practices, and the public flaunting of them seen as being liberating. As I see it, it is now mainly about aggressive and inappropriate exhibitionism - and everyone is supposed to just clap and smile.

hand holding or kissing

*Why ask Pride to "tone it down for the children" fgs. If you don't like it, don't bring your children8

when a parade passes through a city centre, people will naturally come to watch or to see what is going on. City centres are public spaces.

Why on earth would anyone take their kids to Pride?

Maybe they have an older brother or sister who has just come out and is taking part, and the family wants to show its support. Grans and aunties also attend to support their young family members.

Pride is a public event in a public space. It is not a night club setting.
Obviously talking about the parade bit. If it is a private/ paid for event behind screens or doors, then that is a slightly different matter.