Mum refused emergency contraception. Because pharmacist doesn’t agree with it. Grrr.

[Evenquieterlife33]

I cannot get my head around this- if a medication is available for legal sale and use in the U.K no pharmacist should be imposing their personal beliefs on anybody and refusing to sell it to them. Absolute piss take in my opinion. It’s outrageous that this is legal. I have never heard of women being refused emergency contraception because it clashes with the pharmacists personal beliefs until I read this. I am got smacked. I bet I could find a pharmacist who doesn’t like to dispense antibiotics, I can’t see them being able to turn people away. The older I get the more of this shit seems to be visible. It’s either getting worse or I’ve had my eyes shut for a very long time.
apple.news/AsxAxgpzIQI-IZWwX5YbJRQ

I’ve posted this before, but a friend of mine had retained matter after a termination and the scan woman refused to check her because she disagreed with terminations. It’s apalling.

That’s disgusting! I work in women’s health and while we are allowed to ‘conscientiously object’ to actually carrying out terminations those who do so are still expected to care for women who have complications. That member of staff should be reported and disciplined, I’m appalled

A pharmacist once told me I'd end up getting AIDS because of my irresponsible attitude when I went for the morning after pill. Thanks mate. Super helpful.

According to the Bible eating Shrimp is an abomination, why don’t they care about that?

Oh no they ignore that, it’s just punishing women and hating gay people.

Also The Bible is Pro Abortion. There is a verse about how if a man believes his wife has cheated he should give her a “potion” to force a miscarriage.

These Christians should try reading their book.

Here’s the verse for anyone interested :

Numbers 5:11-31 “pro-abortion” section of Scripture. This passage is from Israel’s case law and is concerning a jealous husband who suspects his wife of infidelity.

“But if you have gone astray while married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband” — here the priest is to put the woman under this curse — “may the Lord cause you to become a curse among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell. May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries.”

I wouldn’t interpret that as the Bible being “pro abortion” it’s still punishing the woman surely?

I wouldn’t interpret that as the Bible being “pro abortion” it’s still punishing the woman surely

Oh my god. It advocates forcing an abortion. So it’s not “pro life” is it?! It doesn’t matter what you interpret the text is there in black and white. If the bible was pro life there would be no part telling a man to trick a woman into drinking a “potion” that would cause her fetus to be expelled.

I’m pro choice hithere12

Most Christians have never read the Bible in their lives. They have no idea eating Shrimp is an abomination. That God is fine with abortion if a woman is unfaithful. That the Bible is pro slavery. That’s why it’s so hard to take their “beliefs” so seriously.

But if you have gone astray while married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband” — here the priest is to put the woman under this curse — “may the Lord cause you to become a curse among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell. May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries

Good job Mary didnt read that part.....

When it comes to life saving treatment there is no right to conscientious objection, so that sonographer was breaking the law.

If pharmacists refuse to sell the morning after pill this should be clearly stated on their webpages and on the front door so that women are not wasting valuable time and can go directly to those who will be helpful.

Surely it is equivalent to B&B owners refusing to allow gays to stay - it must be rightly illegal and discriminatory. Someone needs to test this and take the pharmacist to court.

If they take the pharmacist to court, they will lose.

Because it is not the same as the B&B scenario. It is a conscience clause (for contraception and termination services only) in NHS contracts. People who have attempted to extend it beyond the services specifically included have lost in court. But those who have exercised it as specified are in the clear.

Assumptions on this thread that it is a new trend are wrong - it has been in existence since NHS offered those services.

If the remamining part of the duty that comes with the conscience clause is no adhered to - that of signposting where the services are available, - then yes I think the person could win in court.

The recent changes to contraception services (change if funding arrangements) has led to closures. Personally I think that is a significantly more issue, because the impact is greater and is a matter of current decision-making by councillors.

If pharmacists refuse to sell the morning after pill this should be clearly stated on their webpages and on the front door so that women are not wasting valuable time and can go directly to those who will be helpful

It will be interesting see how many pharmacies are affected. I will be boycotting those,

Signed the petition above.

Just to set the record straight and speaking as a Christian:
I think the MAP should be available to all women who need it and if pharmacists don't feel able to dispense it they should not be in that role.

I think women should have good care at all times regardless of their choices

I think women should be able to access abortion if they need to and have seen the terrible consequences of what happens if they can't. But on this one I do think women in the healthcare professions who feel they cannot perform abortions should not be made to do this but they still have a duty to ensure that women can still have access.

The quotes from the Bible above are taken from the old testament and Christians see the new testament as superceding or 'completing' the old. So when the mob brought Jesus a woman caught in the act of adultery he told them that only those who had never done anything wrong had the right to punish her. And the new testament does not support slavery - in fact it makes it clear that 'in Christ there is neither male or female, slave nor free' ie everyone should be treated equally.

Sorry not trying to derail this thread and I know that other Christians, Muslims, Jews, Humanists etc can take a very different view and that this is what is being discussed here.

I've just looked up a handful of local pharmacists, and all of them list services provided on their websites. I think that's already the norm.

Just to add, pharmacists have to complete additional training before they can dispense MAP. It's possible that you wouid have to go to a different chemist (or come back later for the trained one) for basic safety reasons. So even in pharmacies which offer the service and have no conscience issues, you could still come out empty handed for staff absence reasons

The recent changes to contraception services (change if funding arrangements) has led to closures. Personally I think that is a significantly more issue, because the impact is greater and is a matter of current decision-making by councillors.
Very important point I think. If NHS sexual health clinics were more widely available & accessible (extended opening hours etc) this would be much less of a concern as women would not be left to the roulette of relying on private businesses that are not obliged to provide the service. Especially important for women over 25 as there are more services incl. charities like the Brook available for young people.

Btw I had a little google, and emergency contraception is also available from online pharmacies - the cheapest I found was £14 with free next day delivery (promising discreet packaging etc). Personally I think this is would probably a good way forward for many women, perhaps this should be more widely advertised.

I've signed the petition.

I personally have no need now for any contraception - but I can imagine my young self would have found it difficult to stand up to such treatment.

It's a part of the job. In the UK emergency contraception/the pill/condoms whatever are legal and available to all. It isn't appropriate for an employee to decide that they don't want to provide that service.

Petition signed.

"These Christians should try reading their book" I agree but to be fair it's not only Christianity that's anti abortion and contraception

"Just to add, pharmacists have to complete additional training before they can dispense MAP." I've heard this before. Again, ridiculous! It's part of the job and should be included in the basic training. Although again I would much prefer if it were Otc or even better as pp said off the shelf. No reason why it shouldn't be.

The biblical verse set out above isn’t anything to do with abortion, at least in the Jewish interpretation. Known as “sotah”, it was a bit like a trial by ordeal. But there is a lot of debate among the rabbis as to whether it was ever carried out.

Right, because only the “good bits” were ever carried out.

Always find it unusual when those who are religious argue for following the ways of their own associated book, which they state is supposed to give moral guidance, and cite stories from their associated book “as if it happened”, but then say we can ignore the less palatable bits as it “probably never happened”. Then why were they even in the book?

I know is different but my family GP refused to refer me for an abortion for religious regions.

I felt so ashamed sitting in that room, she’d seen me through two pregnancies and knew how they had affected my health and another pregnancy would be detrimental to me and my existing children.

@ImADadButThatsOKIsntIt Thanks for the link to the petition, signed.

The biblical verse set out above isn’t anything to do with abortion, at least in the Jewish interpretation. Known as “sotah”, it was a bit like a trial by ordeal. But there is a lot of debate among the rabbis as to whether it was ever carried out

Yes it is. An early abortion is taking a pill to induce a miscarriage. Here God was recommending to give a woman a “potion” to induce a miscarriage.

What’s the difference? Please explain how I’m wrong? It’s there in black and white. Why would God “punish” a woman with a forced abortion if he was anti abortion? You guys should try reading your book.

Hithere - I'm not giving a view on abortion one way or the other. I'm just making the point that in Jewish tradition the potion itself wasn't an abortifacient - rather, it was an invitation for God to take action. It's also the tradition that the person with whom she committed adultery would die at the same time, by similarly miraculous means. If it was supposed to induce an abortion, it would be logical for it to be used in cases of rape, but it wasn't.