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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

What is this if not grooming.

119 replies

Angryresister · 18/06/2019 11:16

pride.gift/30e24

This is really worrying on so many levels

OP posts:
Justhadathought · 20/06/2019 15:26

I know three different people who were rejected by their families for being gay and I can't emphasise enough how damaging this is for a child. Going after the support network for these children is ridiculous and this thread is dangerously close to outright homophobia

The t-shirt is a specific reference to trans identified young people, not gay people. Hence the word 'identity' and not 'sexuality' or 'sexual orientation' Sexual orientation is not an 'identity' - it is a sexual orientation.

That so many gay men just assume that the T bit of the LGB is just the same as the LG bit is part of the problem. You are conflating the T with the G. But it has nothing to do with it. Indeed much of the radical trans agenda is deeply homophobic.

Whether you are aware of it or not, children and young people are being actively courted and yes, even groomed, into identifying as trans. Many of these young people are actually gay or lesbian. Many young lesbians are being shamed for not wanting to have a sexual relationship with a 'trans lesbian': often a much older person with fully intact male genitalia. This is homophobic.

That many of us have knowledege and concern that some of what is happening under the trans umbrella involves known paedophiles.
The big conflation of the rainbow cub, the allusion to trans identity and the now often very 'transgressive', exhibitionistic displays of kink sex is of great concern to many of us; including many who are gay ourselves; or have long been supporters of the gay community.

SarahPickles · 20/06/2019 15:27

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Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Justhadathought · 20/06/2019 15:30

FWIW when I first saw the t shirt I didn't think 'oh this must be a cub because it's aimed at gay men'

It is not aimed at gay men, it is aimed at trans identified youth. Hence the word 'identity'. You don't identify as a gay man; you are a gay man ( I'm assuming)

PartridgeJoan · 20/06/2019 16:21

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn as it quotes a deleted post.

PartridgeJoan · 20/06/2019 16:22

Also @SarahPickles if you're taking the bear to refer to the term for a gay man then you should probably apply that to cub as well - which means a smaller bear and NOT a child in this context...

Deliriumoftheendless · 20/06/2019 16:32

Partridgejoan- someone upthread has compared using expressions like baby and babe to refer to adults as acceptable. I’m demonstrating how mixing up a message aimed at children and young people with a term of sexual endearment would (hopefully) be unacceptable to people.

Are we really suggesting adults are being offered daddy hugs when the message is always aimed at vulnerable young people?

I have zero issue with offering support to vulnerable kids. I have zero issue with adults wearing t shirts advertising who they want to have sexual with. I have a problem with the two getting mixed up together.

PouncerDarling · 20/06/2019 19:49

I'm going to say it for the third time - NO ONE IS WEARING A TSHIRT ANNOUNCING THAT THEY ARE A PAEDOPHILE BECAUSE THAT WOULD BE VERY VERY STUPID

RiversDisguise · 20/06/2019 19:49

I’m demonstrating how mixing up a message aimed at children

That's begging the question. Going in circles here though, so I'm out.

Goosefoot · 20/06/2019 20:08

The I'll be your parent now, very young person, if your real parents don't accept your identity" is a big thing now. I don't think you can look at the shirt apart from that.

The cub/bear thing however is a sex thing.

It's the two together that is the problem. The question I suppose is, is it unconscious, or did they know what they are doing? I can see why people might think the former, but in light of stuff like the boylove t-shirt I am now doubtful. There seems to be a group that are becoming more open about this stuff.

I don't think it matters if its about orientation or identity. There has been a thing, we all know it, with young gay teen boys being taken under the wing of older men, and it was always exploitative. It shouldn't be given a pass just because its supposed to be part of gay culture. I used to have a next door neighbour who was a regular mentor of teens aged 15 to 18 and there is no question he was a predator.

FlyingOink · 20/06/2019 20:39

NO ONE IS WEARING A TSHIRT ANNOUNCING THAT THEY ARE A PAEDOPHILE BECAUSE THAT WOULD BE VERY VERY STUPID

Yeah what I've noticed with male paraphilias is that they love to keep.them really private and would never get a kick out of shocking others. Definitely.

The t-shirt is creepy at best. And no, gay men and/or lesbians don't get a pass to be creepy.

PouncerDarling · 20/06/2019 20:59

@FlyingOink

Sorry, but if you've noticed any paedophiles around, you need to be reporting that to the police. But I suspect you can't and won't because you're not referring to anything specific, and this is actually just offensive conjecture. And yes, aiming that a particular minority group is not ok.

Justhadathought · 20/06/2019 22:11

The I'll be your parent now, very young person, if your real parents don't accept your identity" is a big thing now. I don't think you can look at the shirt apart from that

It is clear that many people's understanding and awareness around these issues is not very nuanced.

Justhadathought · 20/06/2019 22:14

Sorry, but if you've noticed any paedophiles around, you need to be reporting that to the police

I'm not sure how long you've been a contributor or reader of the FWR boards, but there are plenty of examples, and a lot of discussion of this issue.

PouncerDarling · 20/06/2019 23:29

I've been contributing for years. And neither experience nor discussion is equivalent to fact.

Aaarrgghh · 20/06/2019 23:48

To be fair. Even if someone is attracted to children (yes it’s gross but it’s clearly a real thing that happens) you can’t report them if they haven’t committed a crime. However, if you know someone has then definitely report it. Child sexual abuse is wrong and that includes looking at images even not taken yourself but just being attracted to children and not acting on it isn’t something you can report on. If I’m wrong can someone please correct me.

RiversDisguise · 20/06/2019 23:52

Of course you're not wrong.

IIRC, there was a very dodgy legal case years... decades ago... about a man sent down for paedophilic fantasies he had written down in a secret diary kept under his bed, but that was taught to us as "bad law."

PouncerDarling · 21/06/2019 08:30

@Aaarrgghh

You've answered the question posed in the thread then, haven't you? Is this tshirt grooming children for sex - a criminal activity? No it isn't. If it was, you'd have more to go on than some vague speculation that the wearer was a bit of a wrongun.

TheInebriati · 21/06/2019 10:19

''Grooming' is not a specific form of child sexual exploitation but should be seen as a way in which perpetrators target children and manipulate their environments. It is an approach to exploitation and may be the beginning of a complex process adopted by abusers.''
www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/child-sexual-abuse-guidelines-prosecuting-cases-child-sexual-abuse

Safe people do not act this way.
Tell your kids ''It is not your job to work out if an adult is well meaning but stupid or if they are dangerous, it is your job to stay safe.''

Justhadathought · 21/06/2019 22:19

I've been contributing for years. And neither experience nor discussion is equivalent to fact

So how is fact constructed then, if not on It first hand, or recorded experience? I'm all ears.....

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