(Sky News now) Stella Creasy is coming up against the biological basis of sexism

[RubberTreePlant]

The irony.

I wonder whether the penny will drop?

Ah, so Stella has joined the class of uterus-havers who gestate? Welcome Stella.
I genuinely wish you the best of luck.

And we'll see you here on the boards when you want to discuss your unmentionable reproductive biology in factual terms, and we'll commiserate with you that your gestational status has impacted you, your body, and your career, inexplicably, so very differently from the other women. The penisey type, I mean.

But don't worry, your legacy means that plenty of women will follow in your political footsteps, taking up those female places on the shortlists.
I'll bet you anything maternity rights prove to be less of an issue for them too.

It was twitter @HerFemaleness I've deleted my account, but loads of FWRs were in the interaction so hopefully someone has s/shots.

I'm a bit curious about how the idea of a maternity leave would work for an MP. It does seem a little more complicated than in other job situations, not quite like your doctor bringing in a locum, since her constituents would not have voted for that person.

Surely talking about her pregnancy/fertility is a display of cis privilege and an act of literal violence against trans women.

Stella also came to a webchat hereabouts, promoting her legislation amendment that would make misogyny a hate category but a category that would include males (presumably on the basis of the self-ID she supports).

Can't pick and choose, Stella.

Well I thought that she wrote a fantastic article. Given her experience with infertility, I suspect that she knows exactly how much women are discriminated against at a biological level. There's no need to be so dismissive of her views on the basis of her only now announcing her pregnancy.

Trans issues aren't the only issues feminists face today and it doesn't take pregnancy and child rearing to see what those issues are. Or are you judging her based on her fertility?

Sex based discrimination gonna sex based discriminate...

*Stella benefit from a women only shortlist, only to then promote the idea that males who identify as women should be allowed into women only shortlists.

That isn't "challenging patriarchy" it's pulling the ladder up from underneath you.

She doesn't deserve to be discriminated against be ause of her female biology. No female does.
Stella doesn't believe that 'woman' means person with female biology. She thinks it means something else (something she can't define). Therefore according to Stella, women's rights don't exist.

That's what we're pissed off about.

She's pregnant. Maybe she'll realise now*

Hear hear. Very well said.

Yes, she was happy to say women, women, women throughout the interviews she's been doing this morning. Not 'pregnant people'. Because she bloody well knows women are the type of people who get pregnant.

I wonder if she will get shit from the TRAs and how she will enjoy having her biology and its problems deemed transphobic.

That said, of course I agree with her about female biology and the problems it causes us to face in the workplace.

The average age when a woman has her first child is increasing. And by the time that many women now get around to having children many are settled into careers. I don't think you are ever prepared for the huge change that having a child brings with it. Many seem to think they can just go back to their old life, but with a child in tow.

We all know this is not the case. And nothing can prepare you for the profound change in emotions, feelings and ones sense of priorities in life. And many women would actually rather stay at home and be with their child for the first early years. Many won't be able to afford to, though.

The Guardian, in particular, has annoyed the hell out of me for years - because it has been obsessed with these sorts of issues; as if nobody had ever experienced or spoken about them before. I think many of these women, journalists included, may also be those who unquestioningly accept the TWAW mantra, pretty much without question.

We are women because we are in a female body. The biological functions of the female body have implications for our participation in society; and on the way we are viewed and treated.

I wonder if she will get shit from the TRAs and how she will enjoy having her biology and its problems deemed transphobic

Hopefully!

She should campaign for TW to take all female roles then maternity is no longer a problem

I'm a bit curious about how the idea of a maternity leave would work for an MP. It does seem a little more complicated than in other job situations, not quite like your doctor bringing in a locum, since her constituents would not have voted for that person.

Jacinda Ardern took 6 weeks maternity leave as PM in New Zealand. Canadian MPs get maternity leave. Various EU countries offer MPs maternity leave. Different rules in different countries, but it's possible.

She should campaign for TW to take all female roles then maternity is no longer a problem

I must admit to having a similar lack of sympathy for Jo Swindon complaining about Torres not honouring the pairing system for votes when she was pregnant.

I wish them nothing but safe pregnancies but acknowledging female biological differences when it comes to their self interest then returning to the TWAW mantra afterwards makes me rage

Swinson Sodding autocorrect

Yes I am finding it tiresome when female MPs who pretend they don't know what a women is when it's other women who are primarily impacted (eg vulnerable, working-class women and girls), then make very clear that they know exactly what a woman is when they want legislative changes that helps them.

That said, I am delighted for Stella for her happy news, and I hope all goes smoothly for her. It sounds like she's had a tough time of it; female biology can be so cruel.

When I worry that I’m a transphobic bigot (which I do occasionally), things like this remind me that there’s stuff that men will never experience because of the way their bodies work, and it’s reasonable to expect some accommodations for that

Yes I was thinking about that earlier (not worrying being a transphobic bigot!) as I was reading a thread with a long list of menopause symptoms, headaches, brain fog, dizziness, heavy bleeding, heart palpitations, sweats etc. etc. that we have 16+ years of child rearing, then finally our kids get to a stage of not needing us so much or at least being able to leave them alone overnight, so we think that we can focus on our careers a bit more, and then bam, all these symptoms arrive that fuck that idea up, whilst men just merrily carry on as normal. Yet it somehow seems taboo to talk about it.

Jacinda Ardern took 6 weeks maternity leave as PM in New Zealand. Canadian MPs get maternity leave. Various EU countries offer MPs maternity leave. Different rules in different countries, but it's possible.

Right, I was thinking of something much longer. A period like 6 weeks could work, though I don't know that I think its actually an adequate leave for most mothers and babies. I wonder how much work the NZ PM actually did in the weeks after having her baby?
Apparently the leave here in Canada is going to be 12 months, which is normal for all jobs but seems really long in terms of an MP elected for a four year term.

Yet it somehow seems taboo to talk about it.

The TUC's trying to change that.

www.tuc.org.uk/resource/supporting-working-women-through-menopause

Apparently the leave here in Canada is going to be 12 months, which is normal for all jobs but seems really long in terms of an MP elected for a four year term.

I think they should be looking at parental leave, not just maternity. Obviously women need leave to recover from giving birth, and for breastfeeding, but until men start taking leave to be a parent, a lot of people will end up seeing women as someone it's not worth voting for, the same as any workplace.

I've always thought of Stella Creasy as a representative of high middle class bubbles, over-entitled and over-privileged.

On this one I'm torn between applauding her for actually raising the problem, and giving her a good shake for not recognising that every woman in Britain faces this issue and always has. It's a common conflict whenever I come across these "highly articulate" media darlings.

I think they should be looking at parental leave, not just maternity. Obviously women need leave to recover from giving birth, and for breastfeeding, but until men start taking leave to be a parent, a lot of people will end up seeing women as someone it's not worth voting for, the same as any workplace.

It would be parental leave in Canada, I think there is about twelve months and most of it can be taken by either parent.

I'm just not sure if I like the solution in this case though. I really don't care if its a man or woman taking the leave, I am not comfortable with the idea someone non-elected would be representing my constituency for a year. It seems like a small point maybe but it can be these kinds of small points that end up leading to larger changes, what does it mean if we say that sometimes it is ok to have unelected political representatives?

It’s 12 months parental leave in Canada. My colleague took 6 months and then her partner did the same. Most people still take 12 mos mat leave though. Partners doing their share are not the norm, certainly in my experience.

Having watched Stella rip into people who had the temerity to complain about a wanking boy in the girls showers in a school, I fear this parenting lark is going to be more stressful than she is ready for. It’s lovely news though. I do hope it gives her a whole new appreciation for sex differences and the difficulties of prioritizing gender where sex would be more apposite.

I'm going to bite my tongue and wait. I wish Stella Creasey luck and, if pregnancy, childbirth and motherhood make her realise that biology really does matter then I'm not going to carp. We need people to change their minds.