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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Data breaches by Mermaids exposed in the Times

703 replies

truthisarevolutionaryact · 15/06/2019 18:46

Mermaids has apparently put lots of confidential data online including private emails, personal data and emails demonstrating the pressure they have put on the Tavistock.
Andrew Gilligan article - share token:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/parents-anger-as-child-sex-change-charity-puts-private-emails-online-tl0g5hwcg?shareToken=2f8ddc23419c61360023562a62e74d13

OP posts:
Thread gallery
17
LangCleg · 16/06/2019 10:22

And let's be clear, of course Maugham is only speaking out now in order to protect himself, given his support of Mermaids in the past.

He wasn't interested in looking at evidence before. Now all of a sudden when there's evidence of poor governance in an area of safeguarding that isn't ideologically hampered and fits with his own values he has a problem. His 'sacred values' just kicked in to halt his unquestioning wokeness.

Correct and correct!

As Red says, I'll take it. But I won't forget how it had to be dragged out of him and I won't pretend he was anything but reluctantly on the side of the angels.

ThePurported · 16/06/2019 10:22

'Huge respect for Mermaids', ' I don't like the Sunday Times but...'

This is not fence-sitting, Maugham is firmly on the side that forms its opinion based on being woke and anti Murdoch. He'll forget all about it in a few days.
His reply to Helen Joyce speaks volumes - he is an arrogant prick who will never learn, because he won't listen. FFS, he still thinks that Mermaids is an expert authority on trans health care, after all the stuff about jellybabies, pink brains and Barbies. He's hopeless.

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 16/06/2019 10:26

Those poor kids. This seems to get lost in the grown ups pushing their own agendas so much.

I’ve not even seen professionals in their fields so dogmatic and entrenched.

Needmoresleep · 16/06/2019 10:33

The common theme linking problems at the NSPCC, the Heyward, and Mermaids is that children's needs, especially safety, must be the priority.

Office wankers, porno artists, or gender activists may assert their aims, but children and their safety have to come first.

Mermaids have patently failed to do this. The Hayward advertising free trips for primary aged children have patently failed to do this. The NSPCC with its revised descriptions of abuse, its lack of concern about female members of the Girl Guides and its failure to vet appointees properly, has patently failed to do this.

Actually I could go on. The City of London, Stonewall in schools etc, etc.

RedToothBrush · 16/06/2019 10:34

But I won't forget how it had to be dragged out of him and I won't pretend he was anything but reluctantly on the side of the angels.

What do you expect? He believes he has to behave in a certain way because that's what he's been told and he's never been forced to think about it. What need does he? How is he affected by the issue apart from to use it to signal 'he's on the right side'? It's laziness.

AnyMinuteNow · 16/06/2019 10:40

Another one for whom the share token hadnt worked so couldn't read article?

jay55 · 16/06/2019 10:43

Can't see Susie lasting much longer. Not holding breath though.

OvaHere · 16/06/2019 10:46

AnyMinute

A new share token was posted a couple of pages back. I think they expire after a certain time hence the one in the OP no longer working.

RoyalCorgi · 16/06/2019 10:47

What riles me most is the amount of noise Mermaids make about the children's confidentiality being so crucial - life-and-death crucial

Quite. If we are to believe Mermaids, children who identify as trans are at a constant risk of attempting suicide. So what finer way of supporting them sensitively than by splurging confidential information about them on the internet?

Still. I agree with jay55 that the trustees will be desperate to get rid of Green pronto before she gets the charity into even more trouble. I wonder if, finally, the BBC and Guardian will pick this up or whether they'll continue to bury their heads in the sand.

thatdamnwoman · 16/06/2019 10:49

I think what we see in Jolyon Maugham is very worrying. I would expect a steadier line from a QC instead of this flip-flopping.

He, like so many others in the legal sphere, have allowed their emotions (and their prejudice?) to cloud their judgment. Because of this we have the situation where a woman who has been attacked by a transwoman is required to address the plainly visible man who attacked her as 'she'. You would have thought that after all the judicial training on gaslighting and coercive control this would have been recognised for what it is but it's clear they just don't get it.

OvaHere · 16/06/2019 10:50

Can't see Susie lasting much longer. Not holding breath though.

It was only last week that all the Mermaids uber fans were calling for her head for her support and links to the police. It seems she isn't held in high regard from either side so yes I think her days as CEO are numbered.

RedToothBrush · 16/06/2019 10:51

Needmoresleep, the whole point of children's rights was a recognition that children are ALWAYS without exception, the most vulnerable in society and don't hold their own power.

This ALWAYS leaves them vulnerable to various forms of exploitation. These can be physical, emotional or political.

It is their characteristic as children which is the most important. Hence why their are specialist laws for children in the first place.

In every response to the hint of a problem, these organisations have all mentioned something else BEFORE the centring of children's rights in their responses.

The whole trans narrative is based on the premise that the most vulnerable in society is trans people. Kids are less important that trans people. Transkids are the sacred ones who must be placed on a pedestal - but they are being treated as trans before kids. Their rights and vulnerability as children comes second to trans. They are used to progress the rights of adults as a result.

I noticed a comment on the thread about going public a number of comments about how they and their children think trans are the most vulnerable. It struck me that there isn't thought given to kids who have a history of abuse. Or kids who have different cultural backgrounds which might mean they are more isolated and have less power.

The degree to which these issues and concerns are invisible to adults and children is frightening.

I always say, that you should look at an issue and look at what's there but also question what is missing as it's often more important than what you know.

As this goes forward more and more I think it's a good philosophy in life to help you combat and be aware of political blindspots, and is a crucial cornerstone of critical thinking. I never realised quite how valuable it is.

OvaHere · 16/06/2019 10:54

I think what we see in Jolyon Maugham is very worrying. I would expect a steadier line from a QC instead of this flip-flopping.

Maugham is smart, I think he immediately sees the issues as they arise hence his initial support of the JJ crowdfunder and mild criticism now of Mermaids.

What Maugham isn't is brave. He sees the pile on for wrongthink and fence sits. The contrast between him and Helen Joyce/Kathleen Stock is very apparent.

OrchidInTheSun · 16/06/2019 10:55

They will take the line that they were a tiny charity which has grown exponentially in response to the mental health crisis in gender non confirming youth and they haven't had time or resources to put the processes in place to support the size of the organisation they now are.

And we should be kind and patient because they are doing Vital Work

RedToothBrush · 16/06/2019 10:59

What Maugham isn't is brave

You can afford to be not brave if it benefits you not to be and it doesn't affect you if aren't.

Many women (lesbians in particular) don't have the luxury of that choice.

RedToothBrush · 16/06/2019 11:00

And we should be kind and patient because they are doing Vital Work

Except now we have proof of a form of harm in the form of a data leak of very private and personal information.

EverardDigby · 16/06/2019 11:01

Still. I agree with jay55 that the trustees will be desperate to get rid of Green pronto before she gets the charity into even more trouble.

It will be interesting to see whether it survives without SG as a driving force and so few trustees. The charity commission website doesn't show SG as a trustee, but there are still only four of them apps.charitycommission.gov.uk/Showcharity/RegisterOfCharities/ContactAndTrustees.aspx?RegisteredCharityNumber=1160575&SubsidiaryNumber=0&TID=3168601

LangCleg · 16/06/2019 11:05

Their rights and vulnerability as children comes second to trans.

This is exactly it. Safeguarding failures affect all children. But here, it's often the gender-questioning children themselves who are put at most risk of infiltrating abusers via specific failures, such as confidential disclosures.

Yet those sounding alarms about this are framed as the danger. It beggars belief.

thatdamnwoman · 16/06/2019 11:07

Hi Ova — I probably have too high an expectation of a QC. Yup, I was expecting him to be brave enough to stand up and defend himself against the TRAs. I want a judiciary that is brave enough to stand up for a woman's right to call the man facing her from the dock a man, but they all seem to be cowed.

We've seen break-outs in academia and the media. Now we need barristers and judges to stand up and be counted if the law isn't to be dragged into disrepute. Any signs of that beginning to happen?

RoyalCorgi · 16/06/2019 11:09

Maugham is smart.

Well, I suppose so, and yet he strikes me as being rather dim. One of the things that has frightened me about all this is that so many supposedly intelligent, educated people have been taken in by something that is both self-evidently ludicrous and dangerous. Why would anyone who has spent more than 5 minutes researching Mermaids have "huge respect" for them?

I was struck by what Janie Turner said in her article yesterday - that Savile was able to buy off men quite easily, and young women were too scared of him to say anything. It was the older women who saw what he was up to. It is very striking that the resistance to the Mermaids nonsense is being led by middle-aged and older women.

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 16/06/2019 11:10

You can be Very Smart but also a bit dim.

Cwenthryth · 16/06/2019 11:13

Karen Ingala Smith has written a short thread worth a read for those of us not well-versed in GDPR - as the chief exec of a charity that handles sensitive data herself she knows this stuff. It seems that even if this stuff had been password protected/not viewable publicly, sharing this volume of personal data with trustees is very questionable in itself (I think this is what some people upthread said but with some data/GDPR terms I didn’t quite get!)

twitter.com/k_ingalasmith/status/1140156687065735168?s=21

What is the timescale likely to be on any ICO investigation/decision/fine? Is it likely to close the charity?

Also - would Mermaids as an entity be able to fire/get rid of Susie Green - as so much of the criticism and errors come down to her personally? It is her creation after all, essentially a massive personality cult to reassure her that what she did to her own child was ‘right’.

OrchidInTheSun · 16/06/2019 11:14

Oh yes RedToothBrush but that will be glossed over. No one should have been looking for that information in the first place

SarahTancredi · 16/06/2019 11:15
Shock

Oh God those poor families/children.

OvaHere · 16/06/2019 11:20

I don't know that he does have 'huge respect' for them. I feel that statements like that are dogwhistle virtue signalling. He may as well just have written 'please don't come after me'.

As Red said he isn't brave about it because it doesn't affect him personally so he weighs up the cost/benefit of going out on a limb over the issue.

As a QC he needs to be mildly critical of things like data breeches to retain credibility but appeasing enough so he isn't taking on any real personal risk.