The Scottish Government to go ahead with self-ID

[ItsAllGoingToBeFine]

I saw the following on Wings over Scotland twitter:

I'm told the Scottish Govt will announce on 25 June that it intends to push ahead with its self-ID legislation, despite public opposition.

twitter.com/WingsScotland/status/1139448688311451649?s=19

Am now really worried,.I was hoping the whole thing would quietly be dropped.

Just a thought:

Wasn't it one of the Scottish Trans Lobby groups that aimed to focus on prisons initially so that if policy worked in prisons there was then no excuse not to roll it out to all other services / spaces etc?

Maybe that is what is being attempted here ... sneak it through in Scotland and then there is no excuse not to roll it out across the rest of UK later?

And another thought:

If this does happen next week, it gives us additional impetus to demand of UK government that all the Exceptions in the Equality Act 2010 be made Mandatory, so that organisations will have to legally justify why they wish to "opt-out" of any of those Exceptions.

I'm confused. Is there some legislation drawn up?

It's because of the image Nicola Sturgeon wants to create. When I wrote to my MSP with concerns I was simply told that they wanted to introduce the most progressive legislation in the world. Which struck me as remarkable infantile, or Trump like - gotta be the most-est!

NS sees this as progressive and that is the image she wants to create.

I've always found NS quite machiavellian. She likes lauding her principles when it is easy for her but doesn't stand up for her principles when she thinks it might cost her. See her 'brave' stand against Clarks shoe shop when they had a shoe called Dolly bird yet her utter silence when Alex Salmond made crude sexual jokes about her, Ruth Davidson and Kesia Dugdale in his standup. SHe's quite happy to pretend she can't see the issue with women's safety and rights if she gets her 'most-est progressive' image.

Should add that obviously it is regressive, not progressive, to yet again have another example of women and girls being shoved under the bus for 'progressive' images.

If you're in Scotland, you can contact all of your MSPs via www.writetothem.com

It is still under the radar, nost people in scotland are unaware that this is happening

Sorry, I meant that there were some openly GC MSPs who are aware of the issues and will speak out.

Is there some legislation drawn up?

I presume the announcement will be that they intend to produce some legislation.

Reminder of Bex Stinson (former head of Stonewall Trans Equality) comment last year at Westminster Social Policy Forum 'What's Next for TRans Equality'

Pratchet who was in attendance reported:

Fri 29-Jun-18 09:42:31
"Well they'll know it's over. Bex Stinson was asked how they got Scotland to cave so quickly and said it was because they had private conversation in private rooms with the people who provide services, not people who use them. I mean, that's how brazen and confident they were, to come out and say that and not think there's anything bad about it. That is over. Women are watching."

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3268237-Westminster-Social-Policy-forum-today-Next-steps-for-transgender-Equality-WSPFEvents?pg=2

This is an unattributed leak that the SG will be bringing forward draft legislation.

I can't believe, no votes or debates in parliament

All draft legislation is subject to debate, review and amendment as it works its way through the Bill stages before final enactment. There isn't even a draft Bill at the moment.

Wings Over Scotland
@WingsScotlandA 100% reliable source. Feel free to wait 11 days and see if it's true

I would love to know who his source is.

This response on his Twitter feed is bizarre. I can't imagine this would have any effect whatsoever on unionist supporters.

It's a smart political move. Most people who support indy will not be dissuaded by self-ID. But there are many votes to be had from those who believe it makes us a more tolerant and open society

This response on his Twitter feed is bizarre

I agree - this has the potential to massively split the SNP and indy voters. It's not like they have anywhere else to go though I suppose as I don't think any party is against self-ID.

But it will make the SNP look very weak.

I genuinely do not understand why the SNP are doing this now when it is such a risky move. It's a vote loser, not a vote winner.

I am obviously concerned about this, or more accurately bitterly disappointed in NS that instead of pursuing an actual public consultation and impact assessment process that looks at all protected groups she forges ahead on the road to eliminating our sex-based rights, but I would echo LassofFyvie here.

This is a not entirely unexpected determination to advance the legislative process for GRA reform. Not an immediate taking effect of the proposed law (as LassofFyvie points out, we don't even know the details of what the government proposes).

And one acute and serious problem remains for the Scottish Government in this - as long as legal sex self-id is not the law in the rest of the UK, legal sex self-id in Scotland will be effectively unworkable, at least not without considerable amounts of substantial safeguards protecting women's sex-based rights (as in Ireland, where single-sex set asides can be pre-supposed ie organisations can opt out of single sex exemptions not into them).

We have a big mountain to climb, clearly, but the fight is not lost. And if we do lose this battle, we have a much better starting point for a fight back than Canadian women for instance.

Is it a vote loser?

I hope it is but do the general population care one way or another?

I can see it might be a vote loser on the basis of there are plenty of other things to worry about, like education, so why waste time on this, rather than the principle itself.

I know I linked to it already in the second post but I'm going to link again

www.gov.scot/publications/review-gender-recognition-act-2004-analysis-responses-public-consultation-exercise-report/

The analysis of the Scottish GRA consultation^

All of the arguments against reform are clearly set out, and I really, really hope everyone in the Scottish Government reads it I know they wont

60% of the consultation responses were in favour. SG won't look beyond that.

The major difficulty it has it is proposing changes which affect the UK as a whole. They had to drop the proposal to add folic acid to bread as that was unfeasible to be Scottish only.

If Wings' info is correct, I expect SG will announce it is instructing civil servants to prepare a draft bill and/or investigate the constitutional position. Comments will be invited on the draft bill when published.

I feel sick and panicky after reading this.

What can I do to help this appalling situation?

Sturgeon said in September 2018 that the Scottish Government would do more work with a view to bringing forward draft legislation in 2019. That always gets announced in the Programme for Government in early September. So this will be her gearing up for the formal announcement in September.

Ironic, isn't it, that with two women at the helm (May and Sturgeon), we are seeing the biggest assault on women's rights for generations.

People need to wake up and smell the coffee: Sturgeon does not care about women's rights. She cares about looking 'inclusive' and 'progressive'. She supported legislation that means self-identified women can be counted as women for the purposes of ensuring public authority boards are 'gender balanced'.

Get on the phone and email to your MSPs (all 8 of them) NOW!

If Scotland go Self-ID, could anyone in the UK temporarily relocate to Scotland and get a GRC by self-IDing?

I can't get my head around politicians in the uk pushing through changes that women are prevented from debating publicly by violence. How are they different to the regimes in Saudi Arabia and Iran?

Times today:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/trans-people-will-no-longer-need-doctors-to-determine-gender-vdsbt5ml2?shareToken=e4e331daf8afbfaf8913cc7738fb978a

I genuinely do not understand why the SNP are doing this now

Possible answer: The Scottish government wants to throw self i/d in the bin

To do it properly, there has to be a process of scrutiny, debate and a dollop of democracy. The proper place to do that is in the Scottish Parliament.

The First Minister and Cabinet cannot be seen to be doing a u-turn after making ridiculous promises to (government-funded) pressure groups. They can, however, 'accept the will' of Holyrood, without losing face.

It is being reported on Twitter this morning (15/06/2019) that over 6000 complaints about the Bill have already been lodged. And the Bill hasn't even been drafted!

It is being reported on Twitter this morning (15/06/2019) that over 6000 complaints about the Bill have already been lodged. And the Bill hasn't even been drafted!
Excellent

over 6000 complaints about the Bill have already been lodged.
Remember it's only a dozen or so people who object.

@BoomBoomsCousin Yes, exactly.

You can get your GRC and change your birth certificate in Scotland then move to England, with your new legal sex.

This is why it doesn't matter where in the UK sex self-ID is introduced.

Hopefully women are well organised to stop this madness. It’s fucking infuriating NS can’t stand up for women & girls.