Another perv in mixed sex changing village

[Gingerkittykat]

www.dunfermlinepress.com/news/17698951.naked-woman-caught-perv-spying-on-her-at-carnegie-leisure-centre/?ref=mr&lp=6

Probably outing since I use this leisure centre frequently, I know it's not the first incident in the 3 years or so since it changed from single sex facilities.

Comments on local FB page with women saying they now feel unsafe taking their kids there, but I'm sure all council facilities in our region are mixed sex, they have also done away with all womens only swim and health suite sessions.

I hate all the reassurance trotted out about how nobody should feel uncomfortable and you can contact a staff member if feeling uncomfortable and alarms being available and blah blah blah. It changes the whole feeling of a place, how on earth can they not see that?

TBH I thought that describing the two incidents that made you feel uncomfortable weakened your argument, and you'd have been better off not saying anything. Most people reading about the boy would automatically sympathise with him, and the description of the man making a flirty remark can be easily dismissed. The dangers are very real, and neither of those occurrences give a real feeling of the fear that women have re sharing spaces.

@GCAcademic yes women are less vulnerable than children. I want my son with me. Surely you wouldn't want an 8 year old in a male changing room alone you must have male children in your friends/family. Also when single sex cubicles are less common in family changing room everyone is in cubicle.

How are they perving generally? Cracks in walls? Peering over cubicles? Surely these issues can be resolved. Also more staff in changing rooms.

Does anyone notice mixed "family" changing is more common in swimming where there are children than in gym when all adults? It is not safe for children to change alone.

Agree perverts have to be stopped but not by minimising the risk to one group and leaving another one much more vulnerable.

The fact that women are less vulnerable than children does not make it OK to send the predators our way. As I said above, we need to be campaigning for a mix of provision to ensure that all groups, whether women, children or families, are safe and have privacy.

@Juells I know the incidents I mentioned are minor, however I want to somehow explain why it is so uncomfortable for a woman to be in such close proximity to men in trunks while wearing a swimsuit. It is not just about danger but feeling comfortable in such a space.

@LL83 If you look at the multiple stories you will find men are perving by looking over the cubicles or placing spycams. This is a problem nationwide, not just an isolated incident. Male, female and family changing facilities could be the answer.

But the perverts could still enter the family changing room and install cameras.

Answer is better security, more vigilance and catch the people doing this. Glad we agree boys must also be protected.

I totally agree boys should be protected and remember the dilemma about whether or not to send my nephew into the male changing room alone or take him in with me and the girls once he reached around 8.

LL83 In my experience of using both setups, mixed-sex facilities are not better for mothers of boys. Taking prepubescent boys of that age into the female changing rooms was never an issue where we live. All of the other mothers of boys of that age did the same and no one ever complained.

Our new swimming pool with its mixed sex facilities is actually worse for mothers with small children, because the cubicles are smaller, making it much harder to go in with your child. And you can't always find unoccupied cubicles next to each other. So there's lots of blokes around, including weirdos who like to leave their cubicle doors open, who really stare at you and your child, follow you into the same row and so on. To make sure I didn't have to leave my youngest son out of my sight, I used to stand him on the bench in the cubicle. That way I could still move and help him dress. Never had that problem in the old swimming room that was female-only.

I favour a system of single-sex changing rooms complemented by a family changing room. That way everyone would be able to choose what they are most comfortable with.

Surely you wouldn't want an 8 year old in a male changing room

There's a weird cognitive dissonance here: you don't want your son in a male changing room, because you feel he's not sage. BUT you think it's OK to have mixed sex changing rooms, because, gosh, with the men there we'll all be safer?

That is, men in their changing room are too dangerous for your boy to be near, but magically, men in mixed sex changing rooms aren't at all dangerous for women & girls.

It's all very well saying "Get rid of the perverts" - but we can't get rid of them until it's proven they've behaved illegally/criminally. And when does that ever happen ?(look at rape conviction stats etc)

So what you're saying is, let women and girls be sexually harassed or assaulted, THEN after they've been harassed or assaulted, get the men responsible and get rid of 'em. But women/girls will have been harassed and/or assaulted.

How about this? Sex segregation. Then we don't have to wait until AFTER women & girls are victimised to get rid of the "perverts" - they were never there in the first place.

My son will be safer with me than on his own. A child on their own is more vulnerable than an adult.

I am saying higher and more secure cubicles, more checking for cameras.

A family changing room is busier as altogether so less opportunity for anyone to be alone with someone who would harm them.

Here is my response from my FOI request

8• How many incidents of men behaving inappropriately towards women or children have been recorded since the change from single sex facilities to a mixed sex changing village at Carnegie Leisure Centre

In accordance with subsection 16(1)(a) of FOISA, we confirm that we hold this information.

There have been three incidents.

• What risk assessments have been made to ensure the safety of women, girls and children in this environment at Carnegie Leisure Centre

In accordance with subsection 17(1)(b) of FOISA, we confirm that we do not hold this information.

FSLT manage the facilities on behalf of Fife Council, who own and are responsible, for any structural changes to them. Fife Council may be able to provide this information

• What are the statistics regarding how many men and women use the facilities in Carnegie Leisure Centre

In accordance with subsection 17(1)(b) of FOISA, we confirm that we do not hold this information.

We do not hold information on male and female usage of all the facilities, and where the information has been recorded it may not have been recorded accurately. For instance receptionists may not record accurately whether attendees are male or female, particularly at busy times of the day.

• What were the male and female usage patterns of the health suite in the days when there were single sex sessions in Carnegie Leisure Centre.

In accordance with subsection 17(1)(b) of FOISA, we confirm that we do not hold this information. Fife Council may be able to provide this information as these sessions were held prior to the creation of the Trust.*

So 3 recorded incidents of men being pervs, yup these mixed sex facilities are really safe.

No risk assessment — is that correct? That's where you could follow up.
What's the policy on risk assessment? Why was none carried out?

FOI to find out how many incidents occurred before changes were made to changing facilities?