Tanya Gold's Telegraph article re obese mannequin

[KatnissMellark]

Has anyone read this? I can't out my finger on why it tiles me so much but there is something underlying it which feels very anti women and it's really grated on me.

Why shouldn't there be an obese mannequin? Plenty of larger women participate in sport and surely more would do so if comfortable functional clothing were available to do so, in their size. I'm a healthy weight myself but love seeing people of all ages, sexes and sizes participating. Why not?!?

Who needs exercise most? Fat people. So, really the skinny mannequins should be shoved to the back of the shop to encourage the right ppl to strap their trainers on!

@MrsTerryPratchett really interesting post. Whenever I talk about body image issues / societal pressure etc with by DH, he is absolutely determined that it is women who judge women most harshly regarding size and most men prefer a bit of tubs/curves/however you want to frame it. What would be your reply to that? I'm not sure I agree with him actually, I think he's projecting his personal preferences onto society at large and is perhaps a bit naïve, not being an arsehole, he assumes that others also are not.

This is the mannequin. And her argument is that this body could not possibly be going running because it couldn’t.

I see people this size at parkrun every week. And I’ve seen people this size run 10k events and half marathons.
So the article is just 100% wrong.

@museumum 100% agree with that. Participation is definitely widening and it's absolutely the norm to see people of that size taking part.

I hate her writing so didn’t read the article, but agree that it sounds shit and the mannequin is fine.

The opposite is joyful participation in exercise

I wish more women could experience this - it is very liberating and empowering. Leaving my self-consciousness about my dumpy middle-aged body at the door of my gym was one of the best things I have done, and means I have tried things I would never have thought possible. I eat healthily now because I want that third chin-up, not because I want to please men.

I think being a healthy weight/having a healthy lifestyle is a health issue not a feminist one, but judgements or obsessions about what is slim/desirable/attractive often are,.

If seeing bigger models in exercise gear can help more women discover their own power and improve their health in a happy and sustainable way then I think that's good.

I think we are pretty confused about obesity in our society but it’s the same confusion we have about everything. We are in the upside down. I find it quite conflicting too. Obesity is extremely bad for your health (that’s the science, it’s not even debatable, the evidence is overwhelming) but on the other hand why would we want to shame people who are obese? That doesn’t do anyone any good. Tanya Gold is someone who has discover Overeaters Anonymous or something similar and is a new evangelist for her cause. That’s my take on it. I’ve struggled with my weight most of my life, though I’ve only reached mild obesity in middle age. 5’3 size 18 a couple of years ago. I’m a size 14 again now after changing my diet and taking up running. When I started running I did feel self conscious in my leggings but I wanted to do it. I’ve been running three years now and had to go down a size three times so as not to risk them falling round my knees half way down the ring road Of course I want to be a healthy weight, nothing wrong with that but dieting makes you fat (also lots of science behind that) so I don’t/won’t diet or buy diet foods. Since I’ve lost the weight I feel better about myself and I feel better. More energetic, my IBS has improved, my blood pressure has come down, I’ve reduced my risk of cancer, stroke, heart disease etc. So I do agree that we shouldn’t celebrate fatness as though it’s completely fine, but I also agree women have it tough and should be in charge of their own bodies.

Didn't anyone readFat is Feminist Issue? Of course thinness is compliance. And actually, it's more complicated than that. The obsession with thinness is compliance. If I spend my whole day thinking about how I am perceived by the male gaze, that is absolutely a feminist issue

What a load of tosh. Obesity is a major health issue placing a huge burden on the NHS. Not every bloody thing a woman does is for "the male gaze".

The opposite is joyful participation in exercise

Other than walking and housework I don't exercise. I've never, even when a child, found sport and exercise anything other than unbearably tedious.

The thing about thinness for other women is very true - i've been 11st6 and 15st5 and never lacked for male attention; even men who SAY in public they like skinny birds will flatter big boobs and arse in private, because basically they just wanna mate and arent fussy!

Doctors and female frenemies/work colleagues/housemates gave me my eating disorder, in fact i could usually go to men for comfort to escape the tut tutting and pitying looks from women and doctors.

Whenever I talk about body image issues / societal pressure etc with by DH, he is absolutely determined that it is women who judge women most harshly regarding size and most men prefer a bit of tubs/curves/however you want to frame it.

Women do judge other women harshly, but that's because we're taught to police each other on behalf of men. I think that the fact he thinks the right size for a woman to be is whatever size the majority of men find attractive, is an excellent example of the problem!

In terms of "being thin is a feminist issue" yes, absolutely the pressure on women to value thinness is a feminist issue, but that doesn't stop it also being a medical issue. People in general (but women most of all) value appearance over health. Women who try and lose weight usually do it to look more attractive not to be more healthy. When I was at med school we were told to try and get smokers to quit by telling them about skin ageing/ wrinkles/ yellow teeth etc, rather than cancers and resp problems. Is it a problem that women would rather stop smoking/ lose weight to preserve their looks than to preserve they're health? Yes. But that doesn't stop it also having health benefits. And when the body positive movement forgets that and encourages women to believe they don't need to lose weight when they do, it might strike a blow against patriarchal norms but it does nothing to change the reality of our health needs. The opposite of "no one's fine as they are and every one should be really thin" shouldn't be "everyone's fine as they are and everyone can be obese without consequence", it should be "everyone should be healthy in order to have the longest and fullest possible life". The pendulum has swung from one to the other and missed the middle entirely. But the way back is not via "shaming" people which just discourages them from participating in exercise, it's by removing the stigma around certain bodies (obese, disabled) doing certain things (like wearing lycra/ swimming suits and exercising in public).

OnlineAlienator my eating disorder definitely originated with my father endlesses policing everything I ate and relentlessly telling me how fat I was (I was probably about a size 12 for most of secondary school - not big, but much bigger than my peers). I don't remember being bullied much for my weight (I was bullied a lot but for other reasons) but I never got any male attention either. I remember very clearly the trigger point for my ED being the movie Mean Girls. I went to see it with my (size 6-8) friends when we were about 15 and afterwards everyone talking about which character we all were, and realising very clearly that one of these things was not like the other. I resolved to go on a diet and told myself it was just to get healthy, but it escalated into bulimia almost immediately. I lost so much weight I almost needed to go into hospital, and looked absolutely awful. But despite that, I got loads of really positive male feedback. I don't remember any women treating me differently except to express concern for my health. So although at the time I thought it was driven by women and wanting to look like celebs and fit in with my friends, I see now from the position of being long term recovered that it was actually driven by a male judgement and reinforced by male feedback. I feel so sad for my younger self and wish I could take back all the cruelty I directed against myself, but ultimately I'm now at a place where I have a very deep sense of love and respect for my body. It's a journey I really wish so many women didn't have to go on.

ByGrabthars I don't think my DH has ever pontificated on what the 'correct' size for a woman to be is. He just says that most men prefer a bit of chub, he didn't attach any virtue to it.

I don't think it's about attaching virtue to it, but I think the idea that women are judged by women for their size because women value thinness, whereas men don't judge women for their size because men prefer women to be chubby, is predicated on the idea that men would judge women if their preference was different iyswim. It's the difference between "I don't judge women for being chubby because I think chubby is sexy" and "I don't judge women for being chubby because their bodies are none of my business, but also (as a separate thing) I am attracted to chubby women"