Tanya Gold's Telegraph article re obese mannequin

[KatnissMellark]

Has anyone read this? I can't out my finger on why it tiles me so much but there is something underlying it which feels very anti women and it's really grated on me.

Why shouldn't there be an obese mannequin? Plenty of larger women participate in sport and surely more would do so if comfortable functional clothing were available to do so, in their size. I'm a healthy weight myself but love seeing people of all ages, sexes and sizes participating. Why not?!?

I'm in a few women's running groups and it really saddens me when people ask if they're too fat to run, too slow to join in....sport is for everyone

I get your point and I love your attitude. Just one thing I should point out, there are some body types that shouldn’t run as it will cause issues with their joints and stuff. I mean very overweight or obese people. Some really shouldn’t run. But walking and swimming in the meantime are great and enjoyable alternatives.

Why shouldn't women of all shapes and sizes have an idea what clothes are going to look like on them before they try them on?

Well I think they should too. But I am a bit torn because if we are talking about all body types being represented for that reason, you’d have to include extremely thin/anorexic mannequins. I’m pretty sure we all think that would be a bad idea too. I’m of the opinion neither extreme unhealthy body type should be ‘normalised’. While one mannequin certainly won’t do that, it’s the combined effect of all the different things that normalise obesity, including the fact half the adult population ( is it more now? ) are obese.

I have a bit of background in nutrition and fitness, I’m also hypothyroid and ran a support group for hypothyroid people. It’s absolutely true that shaming people does not work and it’s obviously just mean. You don’t know why someone is overweight, my best friend is taking drugs post cancer to keep her alive. They’ve made her weight balloon. I gained 10kg just from being an undiagnosed hypothyroid person with a useless doctor. There is no sense at all in shaming people or making it a thing- why the fuck my friends mentioned to me I gained weight I’ll never know! Yes I know!! ( I’m also critiqued as a thin person! ) But equally, we cannot deny obesity is a problem, we should be careful we don’t normalise it or make it seem an okay thing. Ideally, it’s an issue that medical, dietary professionals advise on and everyone else shuts up about really.

@JessicaWakefieldSV totally get where you're coming from, I more mean people's worries about wearing certain things or joining in parkrun, race for life etc which is really sad.

Seeing a mannequin like this is going to inspire people who are overweight to go and buy some gym gear and give it a go - a good thing surely?

Does going to a gym make the slightest difference to obesity? Surely tackling weight has far more to do with what the person eats and doing regular, normal activities to use up calories such as walking, not taking the lift , even vigorously cleaning the house.

I agree that there is nothing wrong with showing size 14, 16, 18 models but being seriously overweight is not healthy and it's not body shaming to acknowledge that.

Oh it is sad. I made friends with this cool Aussie lady at my old gym ( I do not bother with those ghastly places now!) who was obese. She had a trainer there and really worked out hard. She was my inspiration not just for her courage, but because physically it was much harder for her than the skinny ladies that usually frequented the gym. One day we were chatting in the changing rooms about workout gear, I am very fussy and think most of it is poorly designed. Anyway, she was saying she could never get tops, vests, long enough etc and we both thought about starting an awesome brand! I went out to the cafe area and this very thin catty miserable woman came out and said, ‘ of course she can’t get vests long enough, she’s got the biggest arse I’ve ever seen ‘. I was horrified. I said, ‘ whatever, she works out harder than you or I do, the rest is none of your business’. Some years later that catty woman ended up being my landlady, and long story short I took her to court and she had to make repairs worth £12,000 and pay me a total of £6,500 in fines and compensation. It took a while for her to get her karma but she deserved it.

Is Tanya Gold slim these days? Not clicked the links but I'm sure I remember her years ago having a really quite raised BMI?

Does going to a gym make the slightest difference to obesity?

Yes, it can do. You’re right that regular activity across the day is beneficial and important, long periods of sedentary behaviour has a big role to play in our overweight society. If you use the gym and know how to workout properly, it absolutely helps. It’s just most people underestimate how much they need to do, or how hard they have to workout. A combination of healthy eating, lifestyle and exercise is the best approach.

"Is Tanya Gold slim these days? Not clicked the links but I'm sure I remember her years ago having a really quite raised BMI?"

yes iirc she is no stranger to a fish supper herself

I suppose she is one of those women like liz jones who've taken the king's shilling to write horrible backwards anti woman opinion pieces, partly motivated by greed, partly by internalised misogyny

not a good look whatever size clothes you wear imo

"She is immense, gargantuan, vast. She heaves with fat."

This is a disgusting way to talk about a female form.

Yeah, Tanya will write anything for attention.

Just another rentagob writing today, lowest common denominator click bait nonsense. Move on. Don’t give her the notoriety she craves.

*goady

Women's thinness is compliance. Women enjoying their bodies, their activities, and wearing proper clothes to participate in sports without shame or begging for approval is about the most feminist thing most women can do.

Tanya Gold in 2008:

Tanya Gold says she's sick of society's negative attitudes towards fat people

www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1088455/In-defence-fatties--Let-eat-cake.html

Nike are simply telling larger women that they are happy to cater for them. It's not celebrating obesity; just showing women that they're not weird freaks for looking for appropriate gear to exercise in. Which is a lot more than most companies do, making you feel unwelcome because a woman larger than a size 12 stepped across their threshold. It's a "you're welcome here" message

I couldn't read the whole article but it sounds like they've redesigned the store to feature lots of different body types including big, small, and women with disabilities. I think it's a good thing. The no.1 reason my obese friend won't exercise is that she's so ashamed of her body. Any form of public exercise is off. She'd sooner die than run or swim in public. It affects every aspect of her life, it's really sad. If she could get confident enough to work out it could really change her life.

Many years ago I was on holiday in Prague and met a young American woman from a southern state who was a) very overweight with large breasts and b) horrified that the mannequins in the shops had breasts. Apparently where she lived they just had flat chests as breasts were indecent. I thought, how does that help you at all to shop as a large breasted woman!?

Firstly, good on Nike for doing this.

She is immense, gargantuan, vast. She heaves with fat

Secondly, she isn't actually. She has a build not dissimilar to many female discus and shot putters.

Women's thinness is compliance.

With all due respect, no it really isn't. Not phrased as a blanket statement like this at the very least.

I'm not saying that women should be compelled to be thin. I'm saying that, from a health perspective reasonable thinness - slimness, more like - is kind of a good idea and makes you less likely to prematurely drop dead one day ceteris paribus. That goes for men, too (possibly more so - they seem unfortunately predisposed towards dieing of heart attacks at a higher rate).

Look, I'm all for learning to love and accept yourself whatever your circumstances and all that good stuff. But ...

... women not smoking is compliance
... women going for regular check-ups at their doctors is compliance

... no, it really bloody isn't. It's sensible if you're operating under the assumption that remaining a) alive and b) as physically healthy as possible for as much of your existence as possible is a generally desirable outcome.

Without wanting to derail the thread: this goes to biology as much as the trans issue (with a bit more of a grey zone - skinny/fat is not a binary after all). You're not going to fantasise excess weight into being generally without effect on human health any more than you'll turn a penis into becoming a girl dick by the power of your will. Biology simply doesn't work that way ...

"you’d have to include extremely thin/anorexic mannequins. "

aren't quite a lot of store mannequins like this?

sounds like a clickbaity idiot.

You're not going to fantasise excess weight into being generally without effect on human health any more than you'll turn a penis into becoming a girl dick by the power of your will.

Yes, there's a difference between "shaming people doesn't help them get healthy" and "healthy is a social construct, there's no such thing as being obese". But, as we all know that POMO logic can justify anything, this might give you a laugh:

summit.news/2019/04/24/fat-sex-therapist-says-diet-culture-is-a-form-of-assault/

“We should be critical of the use of science and the production of knowledge to continue promoting this idea that certain bodies are fit, able, and desirable…is it my fatness that causes my high blood pressure, or is it my experience of weight stigma?” Rashatwar asked, going on to claim that “fatphobia” was a form of Nazism.

Spoiler alert: that site is horrible and the comments are worse. But those were the only kind of sites that had the story. I'm pretty sure the therapist is trolling, but who really knows anymore.

Women's thinness is compliance

I agree with what for TakenForSlanted said. Even if the blanket statement were true a very large proportion of women clearly aren't complying.

Didn't anyone read Fat is Feminist Issue? Of course thinness is compliance. And actually, it's more complicated than that. The obsession with thinness is compliance. If I spend my whole day thinking about how I am perceived by the male gaze, that is absolutely a feminist issue.

The opposite is joyful participation in exercise. Feeling strong and free and powerful, which is how I feel when I run (on a good day). I don't feel that weighing celery. Which is why men shout at women running but appear to be fine with them dieting all the time.

aren't quite a lot of store mannequins like this?
No, slim but not anorexic.

Of course thinness is compliance.

No it isn’t. I’m sorry but that’s taking it too far. Thinness is a health thing and it’s absolutely factual that it’s better for your health overall. How we are ‘perceived by the Male gaze’ is a separate issue. I don’t exercise and eat well because I’m concerned about the male gaze. Nor am I obsessed with thinness, yes it’s a societal issue but it’s not a reason not to be thin. You also do not have to diet to be a healthy weight. I have no idea what my meal weighs or what the calories are.

You're not going to fantasise excess weight into being generally without effect on human health any more than you'll turn a penis into becoming a girl dick by the power of your will. Biology simply doesn't work that way

^ yup. Obesity is a serious health crisis, not a feminist issue.