How do you deal with trans issues in day to day life?

[BalletBunting]

I've been lurking on this board for a while - the wool has really been pulled from my eyes on quite a few issues surrounding the trans debate, and MN has been a big part of that. I recently had an experience at work where all toilets were made 'gender neutral' which I was less than happy with, and over the last few months reading more and more about the violence and suppression that women who speak out face I'm becoming increasingly concerned.

My question is what can I do in public? I work in the media where it's all very woke (hence the toilet change). My whole social circle leans fairly left too, and I'd feel very nervous about speaking frankly on this topic.

Some examples of issues I'm concerned about:
Women only spaces. If for example someone who identifies as trans barges into the ladies loo what can anyone actually do? Could we be sued or arrested for trying to keep our spaces female only? Similarly pronouns. If we call someone born male with a penis 'he' can we expect a night time call from the police? Or physical violence from a TRA?

I want to speak out, to use sex based pronouns, to keep spaces women only etc. But in this climate all I can ask is, what's to be done?

Speak out, even if you get steamrollered. This is not OK, how things are at the moment.

In my day to day life I am dealing with a kid who ID's as trans. I speak out - to him, to his therapists, to his doctors, to my friends. What is happening - to kids, to teens, to girls and women - is so far from OK that I don't know what else one can do but speak out.

You are right I need to find the courage. How do you deal with the pronoun issue? I hate the idea of being forced to lie to someone's face

I don't use preferred pronouns.

In my home, I minimise the use of gendered language (think 'my child' vs 'my son' or 'your sibling' vs 'your brother') but I refuse to be compelled to lie. I also don't think it's very good for my child either, to have their incorrect thinking ('I am a girl") reinforced.

On the odd occasion, where it has been more important to keep a conversation going, than have it derailed in accusations of misgendering, I might use the singular 'they'.

It sounds like you're being very brave!

I wish you and your son the absolute best. While I'm very upset with the behaviour of a number of adult heterosexual males within the TRA movement, I don't blame children/adolescents for getting swept up in the slightest. It sounds like you're taking a reasoned and compassionate approach

If anyone tries to badger me into a discussion about gender issues, I simply tell them I don't believe in gender. It's totally believable that I could have this opinion - I have a clipper/ buzzcut, usually wear no jewellery (aside from wedding ring), & usually no makeup. I usually wear very "gender neutral" type clothing - jeans, trainers, etc. If anyone tries to push me into further discussion, it's pretty easy for me to argue my own corner - I'm a straight female (happily married to a very typically male man) who doesn't conform to gender roles, but I'm not trans. So, what is "gender" if it doesn't always apply? Irrelevant? Inconsistent? Unnecessary? Restrictive?

AwdBovril - but have you put that to the test with any of the woke crowd? For eg if you saw someone born male in a ladies loo, or you met a transwoman who insisted on female pronouns - what can any woman really say in this climate?

I fear things have gone to far for us to be able to speak up.

Unless they are a small business with only a few employees, your workplace (and schools) are obliged to provide facilities for men and women, and the womens toilets must include sanitary waste bins.
Mixed sex toilets must be in addition to these, and not replace them. Its the law.

I don't think things have yet gone too far, although like the arts, I appreciate media is a bit special when it comes to these things.

It's helpful if you are not employed in a hyper partisan industry. I am self employed - I could lose clients over it but haven't so far.

You don't have to be rude about it. And if not using preferred pronouns will lose you your job, and you will have trouble supporting a family as a consequence, well, that's different to other people's situation.

But the ONLY way things will change is by people being vocal, where and as they can.

Has anyone ever been tempted to cross out the male/female symbols or words and replace them with doodles of genitals? Can this be a thing?

TheInebriati - they have converted all the loos on my floor to GN, the closest mixed sex toilets are 3 floors up. I guess that technically means they've acted with in the bounds of the law, but its still rather frustrating and disruptive especially as my pelvic floor isn't what it used to be

I've mentioned it to a few people, but I don't know how Woke they were / are. I just tell them I don't believe in it, point out that I'm not "feminine", but that I'm still happily straight & married to a man. Those facts all just relate to me, I'm not threatening anyone else's identity with them, but they do rather suggest that "gender" is such a woolly idea, it's open to interpretation, misrepresentation & manipulation.

I want to speak out, to use sex based pronouns, to keep spaces women only etc. But in this climate all I can ask is, what's to be done?

Worth checking that your employer's Diversity & Inclusion policy quotes the Equality Act 2010 accurately.
Many dont!
There are 9 protected characteristics, sex is one & gender reassignment another.
Gender & Gender Identity are not protected characteristics though often seem to be used.

Its a straightforward matter of correctly quoting legislation.

The policy will though inform many decisions.

Info here: womansplaceuk.org/sex-is-a-protected-characteristic/

Public services, charitable organisations also need to correctly quote the EA. Many council policies were found to be incorrect last year & have corrected, likewise schools etc.

I bring the subject up whenever I see a chance. My circle is not woke and the most common reaction I face is genuine disbelief at genderist nonsense.

Nobody thinks TWAW. If you tell them that sex offenders have been housed in women's prisons on the basis of their gender identity people find it very difficult to believe that such a thing is possible. Once they're convinced they're horrified.

Prawnofthepatriarchy - I work in the media and feel that speaking out on any of those issues would have be labelled as a bigot in a heartbeat. I remember when Caitlyn Jenner came out I (at the time inadvertantly) used male pronouns for them (I'm aware of MN policy on this!) and I was soundly corrected by a colleague for 'misgendering' and 'deadnaming'.

I fear that coming in to contact with many trans people will be quite stressful, as even if I try I struggle to use anything but sex based pronouns (it's instinctive I feel!)

I struggle with it OP, I'm now being more careful at work, my DH thinks I'm obsessed so I avoid raising it and if I do I frame it as women's rights.

In addition to checking your diversity policy also check our your employers social media policy if they have one.

I would actually deliberately go to use the mixed sex loos and complain every time they aren't clean (put it in writing if you can) and then use the upstairs loo as way of protest.

I also won't use preferred pronouns, not that I have cause to really, but if I did I will use chosen name but not pronouns so my conversation might be clumsy and not the best grammar but I won't validate someone's fantasy/dysmorphia (however genuinely they believe it) if it undermines my reality and my belief system.

It hasn’t come up particularly in a work context for me but I did stride into my children’s primary school to speak to the head on if and how they were covering gender identity in sex education that they were consulting on.

I find being genderfree very liberating. I rant about sex based protections being undermined, I point out gender is a set of stereotypes, nothing more, nothing less

I've not got into trouble yet......

I've mostly managed to avoid this, the one I struggle with is a teen FtM who I see regularly, often with the mother. I feel so awful for the poor kid, it seems like a giant train wreck waiting to happen to me. Using the male name and pronouns seems so wrong, I would feel like I was enabling a sort of abuse. On the other hand, I am not a close friend, they aren't a family I would give my opinion to about any other personal or medical decision they were making.

I did hear though an interesting exchange between this kid and an adult when the child was making the name change. This wasn't a close adult either, but someone who had known the family a long time, a professor of philosophy. He said, in a very kind way, "Oh, you will always be Jennifer to me, that's how I've known you your whole life and it will always be part of you." I thought that was an interesting approach, I am sure he would also be unwilling to use language he thought was fundamentally a kind of lie, but it seemed very understandable to a 15 year old.

I say things like, 'Oh, really?' with a politely confused expression when anyone comes out with something woke that they haven't thought through. The most recent was a neuroscience graduate who effectively told me there were pink brains and blue brains: I referred her to Gina Rippon and said I thought she would find it interesting.

I don't argue, I just question: 'So, spell it out slowly because for some reason I'm struggling with this. How do people change sex? What's the process?' Etc, etc.

I learned this faux ignorance from a friend who's practiced it very effectively at work. 'So if women's sex-based rights are protected by law, where does permitting anyone who says they are female, even if they are clearly male, fit in? I must be missing something: I need you to tell me where I'm going wrong...'

People tie themselves in knots trying to explain, because of course they can't explain, it's illogical and nonsensical and they know it: deep down they all know they've decided to believe in something that doesn't exist.

I work in a similar industry to you OP, very woke and very vocal, my employer recently published a bullying policy with detailed instructions on pronouns and the consequences of not complying is disciplinary action. Union backed it.

I cannot lose my job.

The best way I have found is to stick like glue to the Equality Act and refer to sex where it matters. Even just using that word SEX helps to bring it back into use in my gender obsessive industry. I also openly talk about where rights run up against each other and ask questions as far as I dare to draw our potential problems with the consequences of conflicting rights or fudged solutions.

I recently was put on the spot in a very public setting about this by a trans woman. I made it clear that one persons rights could not trump another and that I would discuss and defend the rights of everyone to feel safe, including trans people, but not exclusive to trans.

I very much don’t want to patronise anyone with a protected characteristic either. So I call out tokenism and pandering to any individual group, in equal measure. I am very vocal re disabled people and their woeful lack of representation in my field and I think I’m known as fair minded and I hope that’s giving me room to apply some critical thinking in my job about petty genderfluff. Sorry long reply!

A neckbeard colleague was ranting about TERFS a month or so ago. I just played dumb and starting asking loads of questions:

"I'm confused - women are saying they have concerns and they get called names? That can't be right?"

"What's the proper way for women to raise safety concerns then?"

No response of course.

Unfortunately things are becoming very difficult. We do have to speak up, because not speaking up leads to “but no one complains...”.

Only you can judge whether or not you can do this.

By which, I mean, don’t put your job at risk if you think that would happen

Because I haven't got a job to lose I speak out wherever I can. I also sign petitions, letters etc with my real name. I realize other women have to be careful. It's shit.

The government ran a consultation last year on changes to the GRA and yet women were bullied and attempts made to silence us from taking part in the democratic process. It's outrageous.

And the basic premise of gender ideology is frankly preposterous. No, people can't change sex. Men are not women or vice versa.

I speak out.

I stared a new job a few months ago and ‘came out’ as gender critical and anti self ID to my boss quite early on. I’m quite vocal on twitter about it and I just didn’t want it to be an issue. I’ve made peace with the fact that this is the hill I’m prepared to die on, so I was ready for a difficult conversation.

Luckily he supports my point of view.

I think the only way things are going to change and we’ll be able to protect our spaces is if we do stick our heads above the parapet at speak out.

I’ve noticed that a couple of parents at school have been a bit frosty with me recently whereas before we were all friendly. I think they’ve probably seen something I put on Facebook that was against self ID.

But do you know what? Fuck them. This is more important IMO. I don’t want to be the person who moans about losing sex-based rights but who never spoke out.

I don’t have a big platform or loads of social media followers. I’m not a celebrity or a campaigner. But the very least I can do is keep calling it out when I can. If everyone does the same we can make some incremental change and hopefully build momentum.

I sense the tide might be slowly starting to turn. Despite TRA’s best efforts people just aren’t buying their nonsense any more. Because it is so transparently nonsense.

Be brave OP.