How do you deal with trans issues in day to day life?

[BalletBunting]

I've been lurking on this board for a while - the wool has really been pulled from my eyes on quite a few issues surrounding the trans debate, and MN has been a big part of that. I recently had an experience at work where all toilets were made 'gender neutral' which I was less than happy with, and over the last few months reading more and more about the violence and suppression that women who speak out face I'm becoming increasingly concerned.

My question is what can I do in public? I work in the media where it's all very woke (hence the toilet change). My whole social circle leans fairly left too, and I'd feel very nervous about speaking frankly on this topic.

Some examples of issues I'm concerned about:
Women only spaces. If for example someone who identifies as trans barges into the ladies loo what can anyone actually do? Could we be sued or arrested for trying to keep our spaces female only? Similarly pronouns. If we call someone born male with a penis 'he' can we expect a night time call from the police? Or physical violence from a TRA?

I want to speak out, to use sex based pronouns, to keep spaces women only etc. But in this climate all I can ask is, what's to be done?

I came across a situation yesterday where I wanted to say something but wasn't sure about the best thing that wouldn't make me seem crazy to people. Someone I know, who is very woke and also not that amenable to reason, posted something on FB about using the "they" pronoun singularly.

It was mostly about grammar and evolving language which I think misses the point, but to me the real issue was, why the heck should I use language in that way? It really annoyed me that it was just assumed that it should be done. But I didn't manage to figure out what the roight way to say anything would be that did not sound peevish.

OP are you finding a lot of women go 3 floors up?

our nearest loo is unisex now - shared sinks - and the queue for the separate loos is long. Men and women both hate it.

I've name changed for this and am wondering what I should do so this thread is timely. My DD has just turned 18 and is a student nurse. In the hospital she works in there was a transwoman patient in the female ward. My daughter was always polite and courteous to her. However on one occasion one of the junior doctors who was examining the patient asked for bloods to be done. My DD then asked him what she should put on the form because if the results came back as for a female they would be wrong. She literally said 'I'm worried that his results will be inaccurate'. A couple of days ago she received a formal letter summoning her to a meeting with her manager as they had received a complaint of 'hate speech' from this patient. Her manager has said not to worry, but now this will be on her record when she applies for other jobs - that she used hate speech to a patient. I think the doctor is also being reprimanded. DD is distraught and saying she will leave nursing now and I just can't believe this can be happening to her.

bloodandtears that sounds awful for your DD.

I am a middle aged woman, really worried about all the trans stuff but not sure what to actually do. My work is not woke at all - my dept is pretty ‘right leaning, traditional older English’ people shall I say so no wokeyness there - quite politically incorrect. There are no trans people in our company as far as I know and all toilets are separate sex.

I have a primary school DD and she will be starting sex education soon I think so I am going to ask the teacher for contents of the lesson. I already speak to DD (8) and my older DS’s about trans issues and we are all GC. Emperors new clothes in my opinion.

So - I personally haven’t come across it - but I feel like I want to take action but not sure what to do. Watched a video by Posie Parker and I totally agree with her. But I’m sort of watching from the sidelines.

Bloody hell bloodandtears that's awful. So sorry for your DD, I hope she finds strength and continues in her chosen profession.

GaraMedouar I can recommend looking at the school policies online if you can and check out transgender trend. My DS isn't at school yet but I'm preparing myself!

Bloodandtears.
Was her meeting and official warning?If so she will have a letter outlining the issue,it should not say 'hate speech' and unless there are serious issues further on her file it will only be seen by her direct managers so would not affect her moving jobs,promotion.
I suggest she speak to her manager and ask from a 'learning' point of view how she should have handled this issue and others in future if ignoring a patient's natal sex could cause harm.

Unless they are a small business with only a few employees, your workplace (and schools) are obliged to provide facilities for men and women, and the womens toilets must include sanitary waste bins.
Mixed sex toilets must be in addition to these, and not replace them. Its the law.

This might be so but you can't stop a male who 'identifies as a woman' from going in the women's. We now have a cross dressing male at work who is getting bolder about coming to work dressed 'as a woman' and he goes in the women's loos. It's ridiculous, everyone knows who he is and there would be absolutely no danger to him in the men's, despite the fact that no woman I have ever seen would go to work dressed like that. The law doesn't seem to protect us from this.

With regard to hospital wards .. these are exempt from any claim of discrimination on grounds of gender reassignment and wards should be single sex. There should be no males on female wards and vice versa.

Equality Act, Schedule 3, section 27 [single sex services] subsection 5:

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/schedule/3/part/7/crossheading/singlesex-services

and the Explanatory Notes give a specific example f separate hospital wards for females and males:

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/notes/division/3/16/20/7/4

The law doesn't seem to protect us from this.

It does, thankfully .. anyone without a GRC must be treated as their natural sex. That man's employer is able to instruct him to use the male toilets.

See this extract from a letter written by a group of lawyers:

"The Equality Act 2010 provides trans people with the important and necessary protection from discrimination on the basis of gender re-assignment. This is not the same as a general right of access to single sex spaces and services in all circumstances. It is established in case law that the comparator for a transgender person claiming discrimination in relation to gender re-assignment is not the sex which they are seeking transition to but that which they are seeking transition from."

Here is the whole letter:

forwomen.scot/30/03/2019/tie-letter-legal-response/

That's awful bloodandtears, I would say that she should go to her union for support but well ....

The thing is Jacky who an earth would feel bold enough to instruct a trans person to use the men's toilets? Whatever the law says, in this climate the potential risk to the company is too great - most employers wouldn't dream of taking that step.

I avoid work social functions, I use different loos if I can at work, I work at home or in another local office more. I don't say anything as I want to keep my job.

I've never had to deal with 'trans issues' in my life, neither has anyone I know. I've only read about them on here but don't encounter them.
I doubt I'm alone in this.

@Bloodandtears Your daughter needs to:

Ask for a copy of the parts of the complaint that relate to her
Advise that she wants to meet again after consulting with her union and state explicitly that she will share a copy of the final response and actions (the bits relating to her) which she is asking for with her union rep
She should also email her manager, the head of complaints and the trust equalities lead to tell them she is formally asking @Hotterthanahotthing 's question about clinical impact and that she will want to have the formal trust position from part of the response. She should ask for a copy of the details of the formal Trust learning and action from the complaint as: she will be using it for her revalidation reflections; the trust clearly needs to set out formal guidance on this matter as there is a gap in their processes and procedures which could impact consistent clinical care, lead to a serious incident and place staff in an untenable position.

PM me if you need more help

Bloody hell, bloodandtears, that's so awful, especially off the back of a very relevant question.

I'm in a not v woke environment which is easier. I've had trans colleagues and clients and would always use pronouns with a particular individual.

However what I have enjoyed doing a lot is asking if people mean sex or gender, especially if presenting scientific data. It's always men presenting, they always mean sex and they haven't thought about the difference. It's often very important as they are generally talking about situations where they have identified women are disadvantaged and they actually care a lot about it.

I've never had to deal with 'trans issues' in my life, neither has anyone I know. I've only read about them on here but don't encounter them.
I doubt I'm alone in this

One of the receptionists at my opticians is a trans woman as is one member of staff at a cinema. My interactions with them are not "dealing with trans issues"
Friends have a ftm adult trans child. I once shared a lift in a hotel in London with a trans woman. We both nodded, smiled and said "good evening".

That's it.

Hotterthanahothing and Becles

Thanks so much. Have handed your advice on to DD who is going through it carefully and working out how to use it. Much appreciated.

LassO'Fyvie, you sound eminently sensible. Most people just get on with life and accept people on face value, not everything is a drama.

Most people just get on with life and accept people on face value, not everything is a drama.

Do you think it's making 'a drama' to feel uncomfortable when someone you've known and worked with as a man for several years suddenly starts coming to work some of the time dressed in highly sexualised women's clothing and putting on a breathy 'little girl' voice in meetings? This is clearly a man acting out a fetish in the workplace and involving non consenting people in that. I dare not go to HR as it won't do any good and I'll be the problem, but I consider it sexual harassment.

I agree NaturalBornWoman. I have a similar situation at work. I don't care what he wants to wear, but I feel very uncomfortable being forced to participate in his fetish and pretend he is a woman. But there is nothing I can say that won't get me into trouble.

Most people just get on with life and accept people on face value, not everything is a drama.

I do that too. And I am glad you are not personally affected. Long, very long may it continue.

However, gender-neutral policy making coupled with transgender ideology and legislation is now negatively impacting on my life. I no longer go swimming because of the ongoing harassment in the new mixed-sex changing rooms. I no longer go shopping in the two clothing shops that I have used since I moved here because both now have mixed-sex changing rooms that are very badly designed (one has curtains leaving gaps at the sides, top and bottom, the other is like a weird, convoluted maze).

My children are taught absolute nonsense at school about sex stereotypes being innate. I've had a death threat for politely (very politely) disagreeing with someone and had men in balaclavas banging pots in my ears and screaming in my face for attending a meeting on the potential impact of GRA reform (before I even really knew what was going on).

And it definitely is not drama, when a little girl is sexually assaulted in my local supermarket and the perpetrator (male) is then placed in a hostel for very vulnerable homeless women. Who lets them live as they wish?

And it's not drama when my friend whose children are insanely talented athletes worries about her daughter's prospects after her club got the by now standard requests for trans inclusion, no matter what, and she tells me that although they are all completely bewildered by the nonsensical requests they are, all of them, too scared to object. Something is terribly, terribly wrong when even people not involved in campaigning against self-id and who know very little about the issue nonetheless know they cannot speak out without risking their children's future career.

And it's not drama when I meet women who have been fired over this, others managed out of jobs they loved and even more voluntarily leaving because they feel they can no longer do their jobs properly.

When someone produces an incredible, extremely well researched and evidenced piece of work but cannot be known as the author because they would be fired for it.

When teachers are told to proceed on a path they suspect is harmful to their student but they are warned off from following established safeguarding procedures.

When a teenaged lesbian family member has fallen prey to the ideology and all previously existing issues are being ignored, because trans explains everything and transition is the magical healing potion.

I'm all for live and let live but when the other side doesn't adhere to that principle anymore, what then? When letting others live as they please makes it impossible for you to do the same because their rights are infringed upon? What then?

I don't speak out on the issue itself as such but do make an active effort to raise awareness of sex based (and gendered as in "stemming from sex based assumptions" socialisation) issues whenever I can. By the by and when the opportunity presents itself. E.g. by dropping into conversation with my older, a lot less sporty boss: "Well, you see, women have every reason to be afraid of men. I'm more than a decade younger than you and I work out, whereas you don't. If you were to try and pin me to the floor and physically harm me, you could. Whereas if I tried this on you, you'd not even report it as you'd think it's sort of cute that the little girl got physical when overwhelmed by anger. That's how non-threatening I am to you." It's slowly but surely making an impact.

As for the more woke aspects, such as all of us being asked to update our personnel record with our pronouns: good old-fashioned passive-aggressive resistance. I keep on forgetting because I just have too much on my plate right now. They keep on forgiving me for it because I have the billable hours to prove it's true.