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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Man hid in cubicle, attempted to rape woman

32 replies

MinesaBottle · 10/06/2019 15:47

I should point out that the perpetrator here is not trans; this has more to do with the lengths some men will go to to attack women. While there are men who behave like this, how can it be safe to allow self-identified ‘women’ into female spaces?

www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/heartbreaking-account-pub-toilet-sex-16395141

This woman was really brave is talking so openly about how the attack affected her. The Post isn’t that great a paper but I found the focus on the woman’s experience quite refreshing.

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Ringsender2 · 10/06/2019 16:08

I followed a couple of links about 2 more young men assaulting women. What's going on that there's absolutely no regard for any bodily autonomy or wants apart from the perpetrators' own?

Also, read down to the bottom of one of the stories: www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/teenager-locked-up-terrifying-sex-16384529

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 10/06/2019 16:20

Defending barrister Simon Killeen said:

Custody would not be easy with (Lewis) Foord's vulnerabilities and the issues he was going through, having made up his mind to pursue gender reassignment, he said.

It's reported that the defendant had a moderate to severe personality disorder.

I really hope he doesn't get housed in the female estate.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 10/06/2019 16:30

I wonder if they were mixed sex toilets?

MinesaBottle · 10/06/2019 16:31

Thanks Prawn, not sure why it didn’t work in my op!

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MinesaBottle · 10/06/2019 16:36

I don’t know the pub and I’m generalizing massively here, but I do come from N Wales and most pubs that look like this one (ie fairly traditional and local) are unlikely to have single sex or gender neutral loos.

As with a lot of older pub buildings though, it’s possible the toilets could be accessed down a corridor or staircase meaning people in the bar might not necessarily see which loos someone is going to. But that’s massive conjecture based on having been in quite a few similar pubs!

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Prawnofthepatriarchy · 10/06/2019 16:41

The pub toilet story is harrowing.

There's a third story, about a man who indecently assaulted a 14 y.o girl and later tried to have unprotected sex with another girl of the same age. The defence tried to enlist the court's sympathy for the poor man's lost career with the Coldstream Guards. My heart remains unwrung.

It's very depressing to see the number of harrowing sexual assaults in one local paper. And it demonstrates how archetypal male sexual violence is. Women just don't offend in this way.

I've been alive for a long time now and I can't remember ever reading a report of a woman lying in wait to commit a violent rape in a pub loo or holding a man hostage for sex and to enjoy her foot fetish...

MinesaBottle · 10/06/2019 16:41

Sorry for multiple posts! I clicked on the link about his sentencing and it’s mentioned there that it was the women’s toilets. In addition the judge said that "This was the attempted rape of a lone female, a stranger to you, in a place where she was entitled to feel sale and private without any intervention by anyone” which implies the women’s toilets. I wonder how long he had been hiding in there waiting for a woman or girl to come in? Sad

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GrinitchSpinach · 10/06/2019 20:00

This poor woman. I hope she finds some peace, and that this violent perp never does...

Popchyk · 10/06/2019 20:25

And with the Lewis Foord case, yet another young man who has been in care, now claims to identify as female and has sexually assaulted a young woman.

Is there nobody who is joining any dots? At all?

Why exactly are so many young people in care identifying as the opposite sex?

Popchyk · 10/06/2019 20:37

Yes, the first attack (by Kelsey Jones) was in the women's toilets.

details of the attack

"He claimed he was using his mobile phone and went into the wrong toilets. He was embarrassed when the woman came into the bathroom, and when she confronted him he fell onto her in the cubicle.

Judge Rees said the jury had found his account unbelievable , and found him guilty of attempted rape, false imprisonment and assault occasioning actual bodily harm".

In the other case, Lewis Foord attacked a female care worker in Foord's home. He has previous convictions for two assaults on carers.

www.leaderlive.co.uk/news/17686239.wrexham-teenager-sent-down-after-sexually-assaulting-care-worker/

TheRedBarrows · 10/06/2019 20:40

God, How terrifying.
Thank goodness the other woman came in.

It was Women’s toilets and he had hidden himself in there.

One issue is that in single sex toilets, if a man is seen in there, everyone knows they are up to no good, so to be wary, run out, alert management or whatever.

If women/ young girls go into women’s toilets where self id’d Trans women looking like the person who lunged at Julie Bindel (full beard etc) are expected to be there is no way to tell if a male-presenting person is up to no good or simply exercising their right to use Women’s toilets.

MinesaBottle · 10/06/2019 20:49

Lewis Foorde admitted to having sexual thoughts about attacking girls. Now he’s apparently identifying as one. I wonder why Hmm

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Upzadaizy · 10/06/2019 21:16

I should point out that the perpetrator here is not trans; this has more to do with the lengths some men will go to to attack women. While there are men who behave like this, how can it be safe to allow self-identified ‘women’ into female spaces?

I think that's a really to-the-point question.

If self-ID is allowed, how can women challenge obvious men in single-sex, women-only spaces?

It's not just the rare unbalanced mentally unstable transwomen (such as @TownTattle - I'm not using the name they stole from an eminent lesbian-feminist) who try to or have actually attacked women (eg the attack on Maria McLachan) - it's the licence that transactivist stridency allows men who simply hate women & want to attack them in any way.

Popchyk · 10/06/2019 21:26

And then there are those male individuals who just wait outside until a young girl goes in, for example. How can you challenge someone if you don't know that they are there? And if he follows you in, you won't be able to get past him to get out. And how exactly do we expect 10 year old girls to challenge adult males anyway?

Katie Dolatowski, a male person who identifies as a woman, deliberately followed two young girls into the women's toilets in order to assault them. This was in Scotland earlier this year. The girls presumably were completely unaware that KD was following behind them. The girls referred to KD as a man.

www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/local/fife/819644/mum-of-supermarket-toilet-sex-assault-victim-warns-freed-attacker-could-strike-again/

Oh and there was no prison time for these offences. Dolatowski was subsequently sent to a female-only hostel with a shared bathroom.

But of course we're told this never happens.

Erythronium · 10/06/2019 21:54

This is so distressing. Look what the poor victim says:

The day I was attacked, I lost my freedom. I lost my identity. I no longer feel safe. I cannot go out after dark on my own. Every man I pass on the street is a potential threat.

And now victims of rape or attempted rape are being gaslit by organisations like Womens Aid or Rape Crisis, that the men who inveigle their way into those organisations aren't fetishists who get excited by women's suffering, but women whom they are not allowed to have a trauma response to lest that makes them a bigot.

Upzadaizy · 11/06/2019 07:52

I was violently assaulted on the street once, by a man who was very identifiably of a specific racial/ethnic group.

As well as the PTSD flashback dreams (vivid neon of the assault) and a heightened fear of walking alone after dark in that city, I tended to avoid men of that racial group - I’d cross the road, go out of my way to get away etc.

I knew at the time that this was racist, but it was my response to trauma. I needed to do it for my own well-being.

Popchyk · 11/06/2019 08:42

I am sorry that happened to you, Upzadaisy.

Your reaction to that horrible event is perfectly natural and understandable.

MaybeDoctor · 11/06/2019 08:58

The judge said that he was prohibited from loitering outside women’s toilets or using mixed sex changing facilities (in the link about his sentencing).

Upzadaizy · 11/06/2019 09:42

Thanks, Popchyk I suppose I was thinking out loud about the interaction between my personal responses and my own personal politics and ethics. I’d like to think I try - as much as the next person, I’m not perfect - to be as open and non-discriminatory as possible. But for a couple of years it was quite difficult.

But it was several years ago and in another country.

However, a couple of times when I’ve talked about that experience, I’ve been told my trauma response was racist. Well, yes it was, but it was also self-defensive.

Similarly, most women are cautious around unknown men in certain situations. Because of our experiences of harassment and/or assault.

It’s tough for all men to understand this, particularly the “good” ones who would never dream of violence against women.

But I think we have to be tough back, and say tat this is the price of masculine privilege. And that men need to take on the burden of calling out and stopping such behaviour by other men.

I think that this is what a lot of transwomen and transactivists just don’t get - they don’t have the physical bodily experiences of growing up as a girl or the bodily experiences of being female.

Ringsender2 · 11/06/2019 22:43

Sorry to go OT, but re KD (1) they didn't stop and (2) it was reported as a crime by a woman and (3) STILL no custodial sentence www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/local/fife/866968/sex-offender-who-targeted-young-children-in-fife-supermarket-toilets-given-jail-warning-for-breaching-strict-community-order/

Popchyk · 14/06/2019 16:55

Another day another perv in the women's toilets.

A serial sex pest is facing jail after being caught perving in the women's toilets in a supermarket.

www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/brian-melucci-north-shields-tesco-16427055

"Jonathan Stirland, defending, insisted his client had been falsely identified as the man spotted peeping underneath the cubicle.

He said: "It's not the defence's case that somebody didn't look, it's the defence's case it was not the defendant.

On the charge of observing a private act for sexual gratification, Mr Stirland added: "You are making a quantum leap to conclude there could be no other reason why a person could find themselves in that situation." Hmm

There was CCTV of him going in, and the defence were still denying it. He'd probably have got away with it if there hadn't been CCTV.

This is the same guy.

Man performed sex act in front of lone dog walker just days after flashing another woman

www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/brian-melucci-wallsend-flasher-court-14324480

Popchyk · 18/06/2019 13:23

Another day, another assault in the women's toilets.

This time a 7 year old.

"A SEX fiend was caught with a knife, gloves and lube in his bag after trying to force a seven-year-old girl's trousers down in a Livingston restaurant toilet cubicle".

www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/4377060/sex-attack-schoolgirl-restaurant-cubicle-livingston-knife-lube/

He'd followed a woman into the same women's toilets before.

"He also pled guilty to following a woman into the female toilets at the restaurant in Livingston on January 13, entering the middle cubicle next to her and watching her as she used the toilet".

But rest assured people. This never happens.

AncientLights · 18/06/2019 20:47

Upzadaizy I don't think your trauma response is racist, I think that's a complete misuse of the word 'racist'. If you'd been bitten by a German shepherd dog, you'd probably be more frightened of German shepherd dogs than of labradors, for instance. If you'd been badly burnt as a child, you'd be fearful of fire and not water. You can't rationalise trauma away. All those people who told you you were being racist should just fuck right off.

BeansandRice · 19/06/2019 08:20

Another day, another assault in the women's toilets.

Oh, but This Never Happens.

Be quiet women, just shut up and move over.