Why doesn’t this sub talk more about grooming gangs?

[Namechange1990x]

I’m from one of the many areas that has had a mass grooming gang problem.

I just don’t understand how this sub is in such anger about the trans issue and not grooming gangs. I can think of one example of a TiM (Karen White) attacking women. Meanwhile we’ve had tens of thousands of girls raped by a group of men who are a minority (2% of the population).

So in terms of numbers why isn’t there more feminist campaigning about this issue???

I also want to add I agree with this sub about the trans issue. I don’t want them in women’s spaces. But I’ve seen next to nothing about this issue. Is it because people want to be politically correct? Because you aren’t afraid of being non PC when it comes to the trans issue. Also that’s the reason this was ignored for so long in Rotherham and was allowed to continue to 10+ years.

Julie Bindell has done a great job raising this issue but I wish people would take it more seriously. We have 2% of the population (Muslim men) involved in over 84% of grooming gang cases and it’s happening all over the country. I just wish people would take this more seriously instead of worrying about coming across as racist.

Agree with RoyalCorgi - very agenda'd post with a subtext of why aren't you getting angry about Muslims?

Because it is impossible to talk about it without racism being called. We know that stats but as soon as they are quoted we get not all men, and white men do it etc etc. We are unable to discuss it

This.
Such defensiveness.

I think the OP has made her point badly, but she does have a point in there somewhere.

One of the things that worries me is that, while feminist women are focused on gender self-id issues, what else are we taking our eyes off?

OP, I am no expert on this particular area, but here’s a basic list of starting points for what someone can do to work against child sexual exploitation:

Become an Independent Visitor for a looked after child or young person.

Look at your local children’s social care Ofsted report. If there are safeguarding weaknesses around CSE, write to your local MP and councillors to ask what they are doing to support children’s services.

Write to your local police crime commissioner, as above.

Donate to charities or projects that offer children and young people safe spaces, helplines or similar.

Support initiatives in schools that promote cultural cohesion and understanding i.e. visits to places of worship.

Become a school governor

The OP also started this disingenuous thread last week, presumably to try to get us all to laud a eugenicist:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3603041-Wow-Someone-in-academia-actually-honest-about-transgender-people

I had a post on grooming deleted just yesterday.

Obviously it wasn't the right type of grooming post.

Alot of grooming posts get deleted.

Perhaps it's because it's a subject that gets lots of attention in the MSM and politically, whereas we've had to fight like crazy to be heard on the subject of males in female spaces.

Yawn.

Another one of those. Let us know when you have got your screenshot quota OP. Save us all some time.

One of the things that worries me is that, while feminist women are focused on gender self-id issues, what else are we taking our eyes off?

Nothing. Women are experts at multi tasking don’t you know

Right now my primary preoccupation is that every major UK institution, including our legal system has apparently replaced sex with gender.
Making it impossible for women to legally distinguish themselves from men.

I have a sex which is profoundly distinguishable from the other sex in reality.
I'm fighting to have our institutions reflect that reality. (Again. They did used to, until not so long ago)

Glad you've committed to fighting grooming gangs, OP. We all have our area of focus. This is mine, and, it seems, that of many women on mumsnet.
You've chosen yours, and many women will work with you on that too.
I haven't the time or inclination to work on a donkey sanctuary either, but I'm glad others do, have no intention of diverting them from their chosen priority, and wish them success.

I think it's the size of asian grooming gangs that makes them visible. White men tend to groom and abuse probably at the same rates but as individuals or in smaller groups. So not counted in the 'gang' statistics but just as much of a problem

For the abuse to take off and become widespread, you need

1. gangs of men who know and trust one another, who form a sort of closed community;
2. a culture of omerta (so no-one dobs them in)
3. a culture of teflon-coating (so they're seen as untouchable by the law for some reason or other)
4. an othering of the victims ("teenage prozzies", "just kids in care", "probably lying, these kids always do you know", etc.

Race is not on this list, because race is incidental - it just mirrors the particular society in which the abuse is taking place in. Rotherham - large Asian community. So there were Asian grooming gangs. Where I currently live - overwhelmingly white. So the gangs operating in the market towns are predominantly white. (I have friends in the police and social services who work in this area, so I get to hear what goes on).

Some examples:

Priests (in a number of denominations, Catholic priests having probably had most publicity). Closed culture? Tick. Culture of secrecy? What's more secret than the confessional? Powerful? Yes - if you share their beliefs, you think they can literally send you to hell by withholding absolution. Teflon coating? Being seen as "good people" because that's what religions typically claim of their priesthood. Race? In this case white, because that reflects the demographic they are drawn from.

TV celebrities. Power (the ability to reach into millions of homes, the backing of the secular cult of celebrity our culture worships). Tick. Omerta? Broadcasting companies have whole teams of lawyers and we have the most draconian libel laws in the world. Teflon coating? Lots of good work for charity. Race? Again, in this case, white, because that reflects the demographic they are drawn from.

Taxi drivers in Rotherham. Power - in this case very low in the grand scheme of things, but considerable relative to their victims, just in virtue of having transport, having enough money to buy their victims drugs/ciggies/alcohol. Omerta - closed demographic group under attack from the wider society which creates an "us against them" mentality of not going to the police. Teflon coating - it's been argued that race did play a role here, because police didn't want to be seen as racist. But if one knows about the engrained misogyny of the police forces up in that neck of the woods (I lived and worked there for many, may years), the police attitude towards the victims ("teen prozzies and druggies, no better than they should be...") are more likely to explain the lack of action. Race - in this instance Asian, but again (as above) because that happens to be the demographic of the area they were working in.

What is overwhelmingly the case is that the perpetrators were overwhelmingly likely to be men (you get the occasional case of women involved in trafficking, usually as part of organised family gangs, but overwhelmingly, at around the 99% level, they're male).

I always wonder why people consider crimes committed by ethnic minorities against white women so much more abhorrent than within the same race sex crimes

We should be appalled at grooming gangs regardless of their race

Red's post sums it up for me.

We do discuss grooming, safeguarding and systematic failings a lot across this board. Often in threads where the title doesn't necessarily indict it.

It's too simplistic to say this or that group of men are bad. It's why the proposed self ID laws have been such a big issue for women because it's impossible just to round up one type of men and say there problem solved.

Muslim grooming gangs are a big problem but so is all the abuse covered up by the Catholic Church and all other predators out there that belong to every race. The common factor they all have is being male.

*indicate

Lol bend over backwards why don't you.
Stop it.

It's roots owe a lot to institutional failure, woke culture which has allowed political blind spots to occur, whistleblowers being thrown under the bus, misogyny and rape culture which frames young victims as 'asking for it', commercialisation of the care system which leads to kids being put in unsuitable homes and their needs not addressed nor even acknowledged, poor mental health care... I could go on.

@RedToothBrush (sorry to @) - did you see this Twitter thread?

twitter.com/MartinBarrow/status/1137007634366828544

Professional fostering agencies making profits of £100m a year while LA children's services have no cash.

If OP would like to see all CSA properly addressed, including but not limited to, on street grooming, this gross mismatch of funding might be a good place to start.

A good deal of what we post on here is to do with safeguarding children. You cannot protect children from grooming gangs if the major child protection charity in this country has abandoned safeguarding principles. You cannot protect children from grooming gangs if the police are in thrall to organisations that seek to harm children. You cannot protect children from grooming gangs if schools are promoting an ideology that puts children at risk.

Our prime focus in what the OP describes as threads about the transgender issue is to safeguard women and children. What appears from the outside to be an obsession with "trans" issues is actually a concern to stop male sexual abusers breaking down the barriers that protect women and girls.

Morning, and thanks for all the reports about this thread.

We've been having a careful check behind the scenes and can now see links between the OP and a previously banned poster.

We can either pull the whole thing or close it so we don't lose your replies. Either way, the OP won't be returning...

Keep it up, there's nothing in it worth deleting the thread for.

I don't think anyone was fooled by OP. There are some interesting and pertinent posts about safeguarding, it would be a shame to lose them.

Some facts and figures:
www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/what-do-we-know-about-the-ethnicity-of-sexual-abuse-gangs

You can tie yourselves in intersectional knots all you like.
Name it. Expose it.

Why aren't any of the people who say they are angry about grooming gangs aware of the fate of the women who spoke out against them?

Keep it up, please.

The hypocrisy on this thread,!!!
Think.