Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

NHS Guide for ‘ Women who have sex with other women’

40 replies

JessicaWakefieldSV · 09/06/2019 12:11

I keep thinking this can’t be right? Not just that the word lesbian isn’t used, but the actual NHS is issuing advice to lesbians about safe sex with a person who has a penis. If your partner has a penis use a condom? In a leaflet for lesbians? The NHS?

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7119867/NHS-safer-sex-guide-women-sleep-women-issues-mind-boggling-advice.html

OP posts:
OP posts:
BroomstickOfLove · 09/06/2019 12:14

It's absolutely standard for health campaigns to say "women who have sex with women" or "men who have sex with men", because plenty of women who have sex with women aren't lesbians.

EverardDigby · 09/06/2019 12:17

Yep, more ammunition for men to pester lesbians to have sex with them because some lesbians do cock Angry

Teddybear45 · 09/06/2019 12:19

A lot of women who have sex with women are bi or pan - growing up I would have ignored sexual advice aimed as lesbian women out of principle, so it’s good they’re addressing multiple sexualities.

JessicaWakefieldSV · 09/06/2019 12:21

I hadn’t thought of that, I assumed it was to appease the trans community, so I take your point.

OP posts:
Aspley · 09/06/2019 12:24

No article aimed at women who had sex with women (lesbians or bi) should include any reference to penises (except maybe to specify that if one of the parties has a penis then to go get the heterosexual sex guide)
It is homophobia and encouraging the notion that someone with a penis can claim to be a lesbian.
Seriously these people have no idea how this kind of thing damages lesbians

JessicaWakefieldSV · 09/06/2019 12:27

Seriously these people have no idea how this kind of thing damages lesbians

I’m not lesbian so I can’t know what it’s like, but it really worries me that young women in particular are being given this from an official source like the NHS and how it might confuse them. I really do think it’s homophobic. I think an NHS guide is guilty of a hate crime.

OP posts:
thatdamnwoman · 09/06/2019 12:28

Yup, I agree. I'm a lesbian. Any woman who is having sex with a person with a penis needs to be directed to the sexual health guide for heterosexual sexual health.

AriaFitz · 09/06/2019 12:30

I think the wording of ‘women who have sex with women’ is fine, rather than using the word lesbian and women can be/consider themselves bi/curious/straight but fancy one specific woman/whatever but the penis thing is ShockHmmConfused

AlwaysComingHome · 09/06/2019 12:30

If it also includes penises why not just call it a Guide for Women Who Have Sex?

FermatsTheorem · 09/06/2019 12:31

I think in this case it is just a generalisation of the (longstanding) way HCPs are trained to refer to "men who have sex with men." It's actually a very important way of framing advice leaflets from an epidemiological perspective, because the HIV virus doesn't care whether you are an out-and-proud gay man, or a closeted man doing the odd bit of cottaging while saying "I'm not gay because I have a girlfriend, this is just an itch I have to scratch from time to time." Both sets of men have to know to use condoms.

And arguably (following on from that tragic case in America where the transman got left with a complicated labour because they presented at A&E having only realised they were pregnant that morning, and got ignored until the baby was delivered still-born) there is a need for "if you have a vagina and your partner has a penis, regardless of what you call yourselves, you need condoms" advice, because some people are so deeply wedded to reality-denial they will do all sorts of absurd things, sometimes with really terrible consequences.

MrsMiggins37 · 09/06/2019 12:32

The name of it is I think fine but the reference to penises is absolutely ridiculous.

Aspley · 09/06/2019 12:35

That case with the trans man was awful and a perfect example of how the idea that anyone can actually change sex can be a problem.
PIV sex is a totally different thing to V/V sex and therefore the "lesbian with a penis" mantra has to end.

Lexilooo · 09/06/2019 12:57

It is the same as the wording used for men. When you give blood the questionnaire asks if you are a man who has ever had sex with another man or if you are a woman who has had sex with a man who has previously had sex with other men.

It is important because these things can be a one off.

JanesKettle · 09/06/2019 13:03

It's totally gross the way the penis is being normalised as part of woman + woman sex life. It's lesbophobic. Penis is not part of lesbian life!

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 09/06/2019 13:06

"Women who have sex with women" is fine. Stating that women may come with a penis is not.

StealthPolarBear · 09/06/2019 13:08

It needs to be advice for women who ONLG have sex with women as surely they are at lowest risk for everything.
Women who have sex with wonen as well as men should follow the advice for women who have sex with men.
If women and men mean something different to you than they do to me replace with "uterus-havers" and "penis-havers" respectively.

ScottishWomen · 09/06/2019 14:44

It isn't a guide produced by the NHS, they are just one of many who endorsed it. It's actually a school resource document produced by LGBT Youth Scotland. It's interesting to note that the equivalent guide for men and boys didn't use this type of language. There's further details about it in this blog. scottish-women.com/2019/06/09/school-resource-for-young-lesbians-who-have-a-penis/

Aspley · 09/06/2019 14:53

Ah, LBGT Youth Scotland?
That explains it. *
I shouldn't need to ask the question but does the advice for 'men who have sex with men: include a section on vaginas and avoiding pregnancy I wonder?
I can't wait for gay men to exposed to equivalent with man-vag strangely trans men are not so pushy and entitled. I cannot think why

DpWm · 09/06/2019 15:13

Advise for women who have sex with women should be clear and uncomplicated.
They could then add a section "if you are having sex with a man or a transwoman remember to use a condom" for women who are bisexual.

Women don't have penises and this advice is saying they can do.
It's ideological and deliberately confusing.

HermioneWeasley · 09/06/2019 15:15

Shockingly the advice for gay men does not pretend that men have vaginas

NHS Guide for ‘ Women who have sex with other women’
GCAcademic · 09/06/2019 15:20

Shockingly the advice for gay men does not pretend that men have vaginas

You surprise me. Why is LGBT Youth Scotland not all over this? Is it perhaps because of an underlying assumption that all women must do cock, but all men can do whatever they like with their cock?

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 09/06/2019 15:42

Is it perhaps because of an underlying assumption that all women must do cock, but all men can do whatever they like with their cock?

Yes.

JessicaWakefieldSV · 09/06/2019 15:49

ScottishWomen thank you for clarifying who actually produced it and the NHS connection.

OP posts:
JessicaWakefieldSV · 09/06/2019 15:50

Is it perhaps because of an underlying assumption that all women must do cock, but all men can do whatever they like with their cock?

That’s a big stunning and brave, yes.

OP posts: