NHS Guide for ‘ Women who have sex with other women’

[JessicaWakefieldSV]

I keep thinking this can’t be right? Not just that the word lesbian isn’t used, but the actual NHS is issuing advice to lesbians about safe sex with a person who has a penis. If your partner has a penis use a condom? In a leaflet for lesbians? The NHS?

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7119867/NHS-safer-sex-guide-women-sleep-women-issues-mind-boggling-advice.html

It's easy to have a quick glance at the headline and think it was produced by the NHS. This is a resource by LGBT Youth Scotland & has been linked in a tweet by Education Scotland.

It is aimed towards children & young people!

What FermatsTheorem said

It needs to be advice for women who ONLG have sex with women as surely they are at lowest risk for everything.

Women who have sex with women might not be as at much risk of STIs as women who have sex with men but many STIs are passed on by other means than PIV or PI-any-orifice sex so there is not no risk, as Anne Lister discovered when she picked up an STI from one of her exclusively female lovers.

Women who have sex with wonen as well as men should follow the advice for women who have sex with men.

And how does this help those women when assessing risk re sexual contact with females?

The terms "men who have sex with men" and "women who have sex with women" are used by sexual health professionals exactly because they end up seeing so many patients who identify in a certain way, e.g. as a lesbian but who seek help and advice when they have sex with men or as a heterosexual man but who has sex with men.

Women who identify as lesbians occasionally having sex with men is not uncommon, just as straight men having occasional sex with other men is not uncommon.

A significant reason that this does not get discussed within lesbian circles is because of prevalent beliefs within the lesbian communities about categories. Basically many lesbians believe that if a lesbian has sex with one or more men that she is no longer a lesbian.

I am not talking about sexual relationships prior to identifying as a lesbian, but sexual experiences after a woman identifies as a lesbian.

Surely it is not difficult to understand why so many women who identify as lesbians keep very quiet about sexual relationships with men?

It is unsurprising that these terms are used in the context of sexual health as, no matter how anyone identifies, if they are concerned about STIs they will visit a sexual health clinic and be encouraged to talk truthfully to a professional whose job it is to assess and test them for STIs and to do contact tracing if appropriate.

People who do not work in the front line of sexual health can opine about what makes a person gay, straight, lesbian, bi or whatever, but people in sexual health professions are uninterested in challenging patients about the definitions of what constitutes a lesbian, gay, straight or anything other sexual preference.

A professional stance requires a sympathetic, non-judgemental (within legal boundaries) stance and appropriate testing, counselling / advice and contact tracing.

I can understand why some women would pull out a dictionary and say “there you go this is what lesbian means” but if they had ever worked in a professional capacity in a sexual health setting they would know that how people identify and what they do sexually are often completely different things.

But if women who mostly have sex with women also have sex with men at times, the advice for women who have sex with men applies and would capture all the other risks?

Yup, I think we cleared up the terminology, women who have sex with other women, it makes sense why they use it now.

They have a guide for people who have sex with trans people.

The penis inclusion for women who have sex with women, is completely ridiculous and lesbophobic. Women don’t have a penis. This isn’t a one on one consultation, it’s a guide. No guide for women who have sex with women, should include details about sex with a penis.

While I appreciate the cool heads that have pointed out the phrase 'women who have sex with women' doesn't have to mean no mention of sex with men, because there are women who have sex with women who also have sex with men.

But the phrase used was "If you or your partner have a penis" in a publication addressing women.

I hesitate to say it, lest someone be inspired to make some more stickers, but women don't have penises.

women don't have penises

I knew it would include condoms. Brave new world - the most special women all have penises.

It's a leaflet with a message for young people. I'm fairly certain that there are plenty of young women who are dating trans girls and who would absolutely consider themselves to be lesbians and who ignore a leaflet for women who have sex with men. So if you want them to get the information, it needs to go in the leaflet for women who have sex with women.

If young women ignore the fact they are having sex with a male body, and consider penis female, then we have some huge problems around young women's critical thinking skills.

The thing that pisses me off is that when I was looking for safe sex resources for lesbian dd as a teen, they weren't easy to find. Safe sex was covered at school, but only heterosexual sex. And here we have resources for misguided straight women, instead of resources for young lesbians. Not OK.

It's a leaflet with a message for young people. I'm fairly certain that there are plenty of young women who are dating trans girls

There’s a separate guide for people who have sex with trans people. This is specifically for women who have sex with other women. Women don’t have a penis.

So if you want them to get the information, it needs to go in the leaflet for women who have sex with women.

No, they need to be guided to the appropriate leaflet, either the trans leaflet or the heterosexual one.

The new sexism. Perhaps even shittier than the old sexism.

No, they need to be guided to the appropriate leaflet, either the trans leaflet or the heterosexual one.

Yes! Pretty simple.

Surely it is not difficult to understand why so many women who identify as lesbians keep very quiet about sexual relationships with men?
It's fine for them to also have relationships with men if they want to.
But the leaflet isn't saying "and if you're having sex with men use a condom" is it.

It's a leaflet with a message for young people. I'm fairly certain that there are plenty of young women who are dating trans girls and who would absolutely consider themselves to be lesbians and who ignore a leaflet for women who have sex with men. So if you want them to get the information, it needs to go in the leaflet for women who have sex with women.
Yes of course there are people in relationships with and having sex with trans people.
The advise should say "and if you're going to have sex with a transwoman remember your condoms, because they might have a penis" but it doesn't does it.
They chose to insult women and lesbians instead.

It would actually be safer and more useful to advise women having sex with women that a transwoman is likely to have a penis, because many naively believe transwomen have all had the full op. Rather than pretend women can have penises. Like, what, any woman? Really? Can any woman randomly have a penis?

Actually I think many on this thread including myself have glossed over the key point of contention here which is the wording for women to wear a condom if you have a penis.

The advice for men sex with men doesn't advise to use a femidom or insert a diaphragm.