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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

“Women aren’t the only people who get abortions”

74 replies

AngeloMysterioso · 07/06/2019 21:16

Huffington Post, showing that they can’t understand simple, basic biology

OP posts:
RiversDisguise · 09/06/2019 03:40

Beyond the pale is occasionally regarded as an anti-semitic phrase, but I think it's a great phrase precisely because it reminds us of the millenia of persecution of Jewish people.

Anyhow, policing other adults' speech is ridiculous in the common way.

Claiming abortion is anything other than a women's rights issue, however, is both obscenely ridiculously and potentially detrimental to women's rights.

GertrudeSaysWhat · 09/06/2019 04:45

“For me, abortion can be a women’s issue. You can talk about women power and all of that,” he said. “But that means a few things: One, you’ve got to include trans women in the conversation because trans women are also women. And, two, you have to include trans men and nonbinary folks because we are also affected by this.”

‘Abortion CAN be a woman’s issue’ WTactualF???? Thanks for including us...

Transwomen CANNOT get pregnant. They CANNOT get pregnant. They CANNOT get pregnant. Therefore they cannot have an abortion, therefore it is not their issue. They have the same rights as a man to get involved in the conversation because every person has the right to be part of a discussion but this is not, never will be and never can be a transwoman issue.
To give an example, erectile disfunction is not a woman’s issue. We can be part of the discussion but it’s not our issue. We can’t get it, we can’t experience it, we should not be telling men what they can or can’t do with their bodies (in terms of treatment).

I think a transman should be addressed as ‘he’ by medical staff if he so chooses. To ignore a request for that is intolerant. However, in a condition unique to the female body, it is understandable for assumptions to be made (notwithstanding that, if corrected, medical staff should stick to the patient’s chosen pronoun).

It’s hard to stay sane in these times. My teen dd and I cannot talk about trans issues. She thinks I am transphobic. I say I am not. I acknowledge that transpeople have rights and these need fighting for but it is entirely unacceptable for transpeople’s rights to supercede women’s rights. Then she gets angry and says they aren’t and then the argument goes around and around and around .

RiversDisguise · 09/06/2019 05:10

notwithstanding that, if corrected, medical staff should stick to the patient’s chosen pronoun

You're nicer than me. I don't think this is required. It's a courtesy, yes, but these are busy people who are concerned with saving lives, not pussyfooting around people's feelings.

The anaesthetist present when my daughter was about to be born via emergency caesarean said, "FFS, stupid" when I misunderstood his instructions regarding the way to curl to have the spinal put in. But he was part of the team that saved her life and though I remember I bear him zero ill will. It was a stressful situation.

GertrudeSaysWhat · 09/06/2019 05:15

Busy yes but if you are working in an abortion clinic, I would hope that you would be the sort of person who care about the trauma a patient is going through and do your best to make them comfortable and at ease. It’s not the same scenario as a frantic A and E department.

RiversDisguise · 09/06/2019 05:16

Fair point

AncientLights · 09/06/2019 06:58

Rivers the expression 'beyond the pale' is Irish in origin, the pale referring to fence posts that the English used to keep the locals within a contained area. It was later used of other groups of people, Russian Jews amongst them. I wouldn't consider it specifically anti-Semitic.

Shequakes · 09/06/2019 07:19

That article is not saying it's OK for men to make laws about abortion, because men have abortions too. Quite the opposite.

No its not. It says that men needed to be included in the conversation because men get abortions too. No, transmen get abortions too. By the mere virtue of needing an abortion, they are not men.

It also states that transwomen need including in the discussion. Because they are also women. Except, no transwoman will ever need an abortion. Their sex is Male, regardless of what gender they present as.

The only people who should be included in the discussion are people who could be impacted by this. So those born as women. Wether they present as man or not.

Transwomen have no place in this discussion. As abortion will never impact any of them, regardless of how they present to the world.

Mumminmum · 09/06/2019 07:42

If the transman needed an abortion he must have engaged in what for a woman would have been heteronormative sex with someone with male genitalia. That didn't violate his identity as a transman, but being called the wrong pronoun did? Uhm, ok.

JessicaWakefieldSV · 09/06/2019 07:52

And there's nothing transphobic in people not validating the inner essence of others, no matter how special or vulnerable they are.

Exactly. It’s that simple.

TheRedBarrows · 09/06/2019 09:16

Females get pregnant.
Females include women and TransMen.

I don’t think it unreasonable that anyone undergoing a termination or any other treatment be treated with sensitivity, and hospitals surely need to be responsive to Trans people whatever the procedure.

As usual the issue here (once the hospital have adopted a more inclusive practice of pronoun use) is that along with asking for their needs to be recognised (I.e as people who have terminations) the TRA lobby are wanting to erase female as a category, and the biological category of people who get pregnant.

Transwomen do get pg and their needs for any pg related care are as deserving as any other person, and we should recognise that they will meet more barriers to accessing that care than other people. Even a raised eyebrow raises self consciousness and anxiety. We all know that.

Shequakes · 09/06/2019 09:20

Transwomen do get pg

No they dont.

A transwoman was born a Male. They dont and never will get pregnant.

JessicaWakefieldSV · 09/06/2019 09:35

Transwomen do get pg and their needs for any pg related care are as deserving as any other person,

No they do not get pregnant. It’s physically impossible.

RiversDisguise · 09/06/2019 10:03

I assume TheRed simply made a typo and meant 'transmen,' given her first paragraph.

TheRedBarrows · 09/06/2019 10:13

Yes, sorry TYPO! (Or my autocorrect now always puts Transwomen)

“TransMEN do get pregnant....”

Thank you for deploying context, Rivers

Zeugma · 09/06/2019 10:29

I don’t care what other racial or ethnic identity you identify with but just by the premise of being cis-identified, there is so much more privilege that you have over folks who do not identify as cis.

Gosh, wish I'd remembered that all the times I was doubled up in agony with endometriosis. It wouldn't have lessened the excruciating pain, but just think of the warm glow of privilege I could have consoled myself with!

Ereshkigal · 09/06/2019 12:19

From the article “I don’t care what other racial or ethnic identity you identify with but just by the premise of being cis-identified, there is so much more privilege that you have over folks who do not identify as cis."
Oh do fuck right off,the absolute entitlement of the TRAs in full force with that statement.

Just... I can't even.

Ereshkigal · 09/06/2019 12:37

I often lurk on threads but rarely dive in as I can’t face the onslaught from a certain, particularly vocal group.

No, go on, I want to hear your contribution. What does "identify as" mean? She can't identify out of being pregnant, can she? And yes it's awful that she was raped. Another thing you can't identify out of.

Mrscaindingle · 09/06/2019 17:38

It's all so deeply narcsistic, I am so speshul and things are so much more difficult for me than almost anybody else in the world.

This stuff makes me feel like someone who uses the term snowflakes, why is the world pandering to them?

FleetsumNJetsum · 09/06/2019 18:36

“I don’t care what other racial or ethnic identity you identify with but just by the premise of being cis-identified, there is so much more privilege that you have over folks who do not identify as cis."

Ignoring the cis crap for once and just rolling with it, I need to know, how does this "privilege" manifest itself?? I think if I am going to be slapped with privilege smacks, then I would at the very least like to enjoy some fucking privilege!!!

sorry for the rant, it's the Wine

FloralBunting · 09/06/2019 18:46

In this context, presumably you have access to abortion services, if such a thing exists in your locality and you can afford it, where they call you a woman and you don't mind at all. Your 'privilege' here is that you don't have a conniption fit because you were correctly sexed.

This privilege makes you blind to what a truly terrible thing it is, when you present as a pregnant female in an abortion facility and require an abortion, to have people provide you with an abortion and notice that you are, in fact, female.

Actually, I noticed that one of the women wasnt complaining about being correctly sexed, they were complaining because they initially passed and it was assumed that they were the male partner of a pregnant woman. Using trans logic, this must surely have been the most validating incident of one's life?

S1naidSucks · 09/06/2019 18:50

I don’t care what other racial or ethnic identity you identify with but just by the premise of being cis-identified, there is so much more privilege that you have over folks who do not identify as cis.

So the child that is raped/abused, gets pregnant and is having an abortion, is soooo privileged compared to the female who identifies as trans, because they’re ‘cis’? Fuck away off! Narcissism in action.

habobobo · 09/06/2019 23:19

I'm not usually that bothered about a lot of transgender stuff, but this really upsets me.

For me I'm happy to call people by whatever their pronouns, and want people to be protected and happy ect. But I have no idea why that needs to come with undermining fight for women's rights.

Does the tiny minority of people in the US saying that not realising they are erasing the experiences of overwhelming majority of women, they are obscuring misogyny and oppression.

(Naming any oppressed political group/ class of people, and describing the basis of oppression always necessitates generalisations and exclusions.)

I don't care about talking about pregnant females ect, as that should include transmen/ non binary, but transwomen would say that is transphobic or something right.

ethelredonagoodday · 09/06/2019 23:24

I've been reading these threads with interest but have never posted. But this one is just utterly baffling. Only women can have abortions. That's surely a statement of fact. Or have I missed something?! I just cannot keep up, and to be totally honest, I don't think I really want to!

Lysistra65 · 09/06/2019 23:29

Every single political party in UK has this nonsense. Transmen are female & Transwomen are male. Why are females who think they are male then having babies? WTF? And why are all these transwomen & so called non bloody binary twits bullying women & denying us our single sex spaces & our rights. People are getting chucked out of political parties just for knowing that people with penises are men.

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