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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Imperial College Womb Transplant Survey Redux

105 replies

IAmDavidLewis · 06/06/2019 16:39

Unless someone is pulling an elaborate prank, the womb transplant survey isn't a hoax. Judge for yourself at www.surveymonkey.com/r/SPKJKTB and drive.google.com/open?id=1PQuMJAkGc7jex5Kgr9EEvlIqkSmsbBGg

I saw the screenshot of the survey go past on Twitter at the end of last week. Meeting all of the criteria (on a Wednesday), I got in touch via the email address. I wasn't expecting to get a reply, but I did. It seems that Imperial College's vetting process is as robust as the average Labour Constituency Party's. Anyway, the email included a patient information sheet with such delights as:

"... gain a greater understanding of the desire, and therefore need, to perform womb transplantation as part of gender reassignment surgery" - whether a desire should automatically be turned into a need is debatable.

"It also assesses feelings of your current options to acquire motherhood..." - because women's life experiences are just trophies to be collected?

"... a cyclical regime would be given instead, to enable the recipient to experience periods." - well, I suppose spending that 20% difference in pay on tampons would only add to the experience.

"Immunosuppressive medications would need to be taken as long as the graft was in place, to reduce the risk of the body rejecting the transplanted womb. These would continue through pregnancy." - because risking the health of a baby is a-okay when you're feeling fully validated?

"... after the recipient has completed her family, the recipient will be advised to have the womb removed to minimise (cancer) risks." - yes, this is effectively surrogacy without the continued need for an uppity woman.

"You have been invited to participate because you are a male to female (M2F) transgender woman. You therefore have Absolute Uterine Factor Infertility (AUFI), a condition which affects one in 500 women of childbearing age. This may be congenital, such as in M2F transgender women..." - Umm, no. I'm male. Males can't have AUFI because we're... umm... MALE! Oh, and the cute infographic which equates trans women with women who have CAIS and MRKH is really interphobic. That it also puts me on an equal standing with women who've had a hysterectomy due to cancer is just insulting to women.

On similar lines, the included paper "Uterine transplantation in transgender women" incorrectly states that the protected characteristic of "gender reassignment" means that trans women cannot be subject to discrimination. On this falsehood, the authors then proceed to state that should womb transplantation "become an established treatment option for women with AUFI, UK and EU legislation would make it legally impermissible to refuse to perform UTx in transgender women solely because of their gender identity". Note the common trick of slipping seamlessly from the protected characteristic "gender reassignment" to the undefined term "gender identity" with no shame whatsoever.

After wading through all the BS, I did what any self-respecting, activist trans woman would do. I signed the consent form and sent it back, again not expecting a reply. And then I got the link to the SurveyMonkey survey (seriously, what is it with Woke Bros and SurveyMonkey? Could it be the lack of internal scrutiny? Nah, must just be coincidence).

To be continued...

OP posts:
AlwaysComingHome · 06/06/2019 20:00

Theoretically, a man will be able to be legally both father and mother.

The ultimate goal isn’t just having children, it’s cloning.

A child normally inherits half their genes from each parent. These narcissists want to preserve 100% of their DNA in perpetuity.

ChattyLion · 06/06/2019 20:28

Sorry I posted this point on the prior thread so just leaving it here too.

To anyone wondering where they might in future be harvesting dead women’s reproductive organs, wombs etc needed for all this- in England at least it seems like they are planning on making it easier.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3573720-Consultation-on-new-organ-donation-rules

Ereshkigal · 06/06/2019 20:50

A child normally inherits half their genes from each parent. These narcissists want to preserve 100% of their DNA in perpetuity.

They would however have to use a donor egg.

AccioWine · 06/06/2019 21:04

Any mention of the effect on the baby in all this? No? Funny that.

Ereshkigal · 06/06/2019 21:12

Not once, that I've seen.

PencilsInSpace · 06/06/2019 21:50

This is so obscene I want to vomit.

ByGrabtharsHammarWhatASaving · 06/06/2019 22:10

So women can't get IVF if they even have a stepchild living with them, but men can get a womb transplant even if they're fertile and have a fertile female partner and could conceive naturally? Yeh, I'll believe it when I fucking see it. Woke cookies or not, the NHS doesn't have the money for this even if it wanted to. It's an Overton window move - never gonna happen.

Buuuuut the legal bit is interesting. It's currently only legal to implant embryos in a woman and as I understand it this is holding back research into, for example, external "wombs". I wonder how far the word "woman" would need to be twisted to get around that...

ByGrabtharsHammarWhatASaving · 06/06/2019 22:11

Hopefully Posie can get a straight answer out of Ben. Funny that he's stopped replying...

Bezalelle · 06/06/2019 22:20

Are they also researching functioning bollocks for trans men? bollocks being the operative word

Whatisthisfuckery · 06/06/2019 23:09

WRT the equality act stuff: I thought sex discrimination for tw was measured against the treatment of their natal sex, as in males are not entitled to womb implants so therefore it wouldn’t be discrimination. There’s nothing to measure gender reassignment against otherwise.

Ereshkigal · 06/06/2019 23:10

Unless they get a GRC.

2Rebecca · 06/06/2019 23:12

I thought it was a hoax on the last thread. Now I am sure it isn't.

ZebrasAreBras · 06/06/2019 23:38

I saw this and thought it was hoax. It's not a hoax at all is it? It's horrific, I feel sick. I'm not sure what's worse - this or the Handmaids Tale. The dystopian SciFi for this - harvesting uteruses from women so that the men can give birth - is so obscene it hasn't even been written yet.

The ethics for IVF, embryology etc, are so carefully monitored normally - how is this happening? These people are crazy Dr Frankensteins.

AlwaysComingHome · 06/06/2019 23:54

They would however have to use a donor egg.

They’ll want the nucleus of the fertilised egg replacing with the nucleus of one of their own somatic cells, though. This is why they keep banging on about the ‘mouse with two fathers’ experiment.

Anything short of genetic immortality is transphobic.

Datun · 06/06/2019 23:56

Yeh, I'll believe it when I fucking see it. Woke cookies or not, the NHS doesn't have the money for this even if it wanted to.

What's to stop someone paying privately?

Doobigetta · 07/06/2019 08:23

I wonder if the TRAs believe that a cloned transwoman would also be a transwoman. And then I think I may as well sit and debate whether sand or cardboard is easier to turn into gold Hmm

NettleTea · 07/06/2019 08:46

is it proposed that they father their own child? are they needing to have removed the peen before they get the womb?

FlibbertyGiblets · 07/06/2019 09:49

The reply - effectively, oh no not MEN, dear - will elide into: but yes, transwomen of COURSE because AUFI . Amirite?

Ereshkigal · 07/06/2019 10:58

is it proposed that they father their own child? are they needing to have removed the peen before they get the womb?

Yes, and testicles, everything except that "it may not be necessary to remove the prostate".

And yes it is proposed that they both father and gestate their own child. With a donor egg from an actual woman, natch.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 29/11/2020 13:16

Bumping to post this excellent and chilling piece (though posters on MN, as often, were aware of this much earlier).

www.nataleo.com/blog2/2020/11/23/why-you-should-not-put-wombs-in-males

CaraDuneRedux · 29/11/2020 14:10

That's a brilliant, terrifying and horrific article.

I take it BD Jones of BD Jones et al 2018 is the same Dr B Jones of the email to Posie from 2019 swearing blind no-one was intending to transplant uteri into male bodies.

DrDavidBanner · 29/11/2020 14:35

@SpartacusAutisticusAHF

Are they going to crack open men's pelvises to pass the baby's head?

They haven't really thought this through have they?

This is something that has already had a lot of cnsideration
PearPickingPorky · 29/11/2020 14:49

Very good article.

A reminder of how far the Overton Window has shifted.

nepeta · 29/11/2020 15:19

I am so confused about the reason why people need to transition. On the other hand we are told that biological sex does not exist or is a spectrum and that gender identity is the really innate characteristic which should be honoured. That approach demands that women shut up about their bodies because bodies have nothing to do with being a woman.

Then we have this trend of implanting wombs in male bodies and supporting male breastfeeding.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 29/11/2020 15:45

I take it BD Jones of BD Jones et al 2018 is the same Dr B Jones of the email to Posie from 2019 swearing blind no-one was intending to transplant uteri into male bodies.

That's my assumption too.

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