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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Imperial College Womb Transplant Survey Redux

105 replies

IAmDavidLewis · 06/06/2019 16:39

Unless someone is pulling an elaborate prank, the womb transplant survey isn't a hoax. Judge for yourself at www.surveymonkey.com/r/SPKJKTB and drive.google.com/open?id=1PQuMJAkGc7jex5Kgr9EEvlIqkSmsbBGg

I saw the screenshot of the survey go past on Twitter at the end of last week. Meeting all of the criteria (on a Wednesday), I got in touch via the email address. I wasn't expecting to get a reply, but I did. It seems that Imperial College's vetting process is as robust as the average Labour Constituency Party's. Anyway, the email included a patient information sheet with such delights as:

"... gain a greater understanding of the desire, and therefore need, to perform womb transplantation as part of gender reassignment surgery" - whether a desire should automatically be turned into a need is debatable.

"It also assesses feelings of your current options to acquire motherhood..." - because women's life experiences are just trophies to be collected?

"... a cyclical regime would be given instead, to enable the recipient to experience periods." - well, I suppose spending that 20% difference in pay on tampons would only add to the experience.

"Immunosuppressive medications would need to be taken as long as the graft was in place, to reduce the risk of the body rejecting the transplanted womb. These would continue through pregnancy." - because risking the health of a baby is a-okay when you're feeling fully validated?

"... after the recipient has completed her family, the recipient will be advised to have the womb removed to minimise (cancer) risks." - yes, this is effectively surrogacy without the continued need for an uppity woman.

"You have been invited to participate because you are a male to female (M2F) transgender woman. You therefore have Absolute Uterine Factor Infertility (AUFI), a condition which affects one in 500 women of childbearing age. This may be congenital, such as in M2F transgender women..." - Umm, no. I'm male. Males can't have AUFI because we're... umm... MALE! Oh, and the cute infographic which equates trans women with women who have CAIS and MRKH is really interphobic. That it also puts me on an equal standing with women who've had a hysterectomy due to cancer is just insulting to women.

On similar lines, the included paper "Uterine transplantation in transgender women" incorrectly states that the protected characteristic of "gender reassignment" means that trans women cannot be subject to discrimination. On this falsehood, the authors then proceed to state that should womb transplantation "become an established treatment option for women with AUFI, UK and EU legislation would make it legally impermissible to refuse to perform UTx in transgender women solely because of their gender identity". Note the common trick of slipping seamlessly from the protected characteristic "gender reassignment" to the undefined term "gender identity" with no shame whatsoever.

After wading through all the BS, I did what any self-respecting, activist trans woman would do. I signed the consent form and sent it back, again not expecting a reply. And then I got the link to the SurveyMonkey survey (seriously, what is it with Woke Bros and SurveyMonkey? Could it be the lack of internal scrutiny? Nah, must just be coincidence).

To be continued...

OP posts:
SpartacusAutisticusAHF · 06/06/2019 17:39

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Ereshkigal · 06/06/2019 17:41

This is not possible, legal nor do I think there is a demand for it.'

Even if he thinks TWAW he is clearly being disingenuous in his answer to Posie. The reason it's not possible or legal is because they are biologically male.

littlecabbage · 06/06/2019 17:41

Are they going to crack open men's pelvises to pass the baby's head?

Elective C-section, surely?

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 06/06/2019 17:41

It will be a C-section and the womb removed so that anti rejection drugs can be disconnected I believe.

titchy · 06/06/2019 17:43

No I couldn't read the google docs. Eek then. Wonder if they're still regged with GMC...

OrchidInTheSun · 06/06/2019 17:43

I suspect he thinks he is being very clever wreaking

GCAcademic · 06/06/2019 17:44

Are they going to crack open men's pelvises to pass the baby's head?

Nah. Those expensive caesareans that women are demonised for requesting (even on the basis of physical need) will be freely available!

OrchidInTheSun · 06/06/2019 17:44

Not wreaking, ereshki!

Ereshkigal · 06/06/2019 17:44

The google drive has information document and article by the researchers explaining exactly how it would be done according to them.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 06/06/2019 17:44

°This is not possible, legal nor do I think there is a demand for it.^

Pretty disingenuous as the whole point of this survey is to guage demand...

I'm sorry, I know I am posting loads but this just makes me so angry. Not just because of the obvious, but because there is a 13 year old boy on Reddit, who is now happy because he can have a baby with his future husband. As well as the obvious ethical issues, there are an awful lot of young boys out there who are pinning their hopes on this.

titchy · 06/06/2019 17:45

The thought of TW having hideous PMT is amusing though.... Wink

SpartacusAutisticusAHF · 06/06/2019 17:55

This reply has been deleted

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Her0utdoors · 06/06/2019 17:59

The survey doesn't mention having a partner who is female living as a man, so actually capable of having a baby.

Throckmorton · 06/06/2019 18:03

Has anyone contacted Imperial College about this? I would hope they take a very dim view of their staff deliberately trying to mislead people about their research

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 06/06/2019 18:18

I fear that Jones wasn't deliberately misleading and actually believes that TWAW.

Ereshkigal · 06/06/2019 18:19

Hypothetically though, if they're talking about implanting vaginas they must be thinking about vaginal birth. I only scanned the PIS but it seemed like they're aiming for the full pregnancy and birth experience.

No they say it's too dangerous as giving birth puts too much strain on the organs for a "transplant" implant. They take the cervix, vagina, the surrounding connective tissues, and the major blood vessels leading to the womb.

That's why it's not something they think they can do on a living woman at the moment. Pesky laws, eh? They need the cervix to monitor the "pregnancy". They will give progesterone in a cyclical dosage rather than the same each day, "to enable the recipient to experience periods" Hmm

Ereshkigal · 06/06/2019 18:21

As I said he may do. But he is aware they are biologically male. And that was the reason he gave to Posie, reasons which apply to all males.

He starts fudging on intersex if you read his further replies to her (posted on her Facebook) when she tried to pin him down.

womanaf · 06/06/2019 18:24

I can’t copy from the article so excuse the paraphrasing, but they say ‘if transplants became a treatment course in women then it would be discriminatory not to do them on MTFs because of their gender identity’. How about it would be perfectly okay not to do them on MTFs because of biology? How does this stuff get through peer review?

I understand it’s a science paper and not a law paper but fuck’s sake.

DuMondeB · 06/06/2019 18:27

This would be so much better than surrogacy if

a) you didn’t need to harvest wombs and vaginas (and eggs) from biological women and
b) it didn’t pose a risk to the health of any resulting babies.

As it is, it’s grim as fuck.

ILikeYourLittleHat · 06/06/2019 18:27

How secure is the data going to be? I'd Survey Monkey covered by UK data protection laws or is it held on a US server?

SpartacusAutisticusAHF · 06/06/2019 18:37

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Ereshkigal · 06/06/2019 18:46

I can’t copy from the article so excuse the paraphrasing, but they say ‘if transplants became a treatment course in women then it would be discriminatory not to do them on MTFs because of their gender identity’.

It's a bullshit misunderstanding of the Equality Act.

Whatisthisfuckery · 06/06/2019 19:30

This is all kind of crazy fucked up. Harvesting a womb and vag from a dead woman, to make a man feel better and improve his sex life? I’ll leave it at that because pregnancy and child birth is just fucking mental. You need a whole reproductive system for that, not just a body snatched growbag and observation tunnel. And I don’t think men would enjoy periods as much as they think they would. What’s the point of being aroused if you can’t wank?

Incidentally, can someone point me to the study gathering information about the interest in penis and testicle implants? I really fancy having a dead man’s dick attached to me, they’d better make it a big one. I think it would improve my sex life no end.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 06/06/2019 19:36

This is insanity. More of it on the other side of the Atlantic, nobody will be surprised to hear, involving the University of Pennsylvania. In that case the activists wanted transwomen to be included as potential donees and were taken aback that the transmen who might take part would not get the typical 'bottom surgery' (urghh) but would have a hysterectomy using the the same procedures as would be used on any other female donating a womb.

twitter.com/4th_WaveNow/status/1136658721726185473

AlwaysComingHome · 06/06/2019 19:51

How they can talk about men suffering from congenital Absolute Uterine Factor Infertility (AUFI) with a straight face baffles me.

Being born male is a congenital condition that affects around half of all births.

I think there might be something in the water.

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