Julie Bindel physically attacked after meeting

[MsMcWibble]

Seems to have been carried out by well known TRA who has threatened violence before: twitter.com/bindelj/status/1136402563379716096

Unintended consequences of controlling the words women can use...

Ginger would you still have this response if this was a regular man, rather than a man who says he is a woman?

Do you go on threads where other men (Tommy Robinson for example) are regularly called thugs etc..and berate the posters for not being nice?

I suspect you probably don't. Why is it when a violent man decides to call himself a woman he is suddenly deserving of kid glove treatment?

I don't think for a second that women showing anger at a man violently attacking a woman harms the GC critical argument.

I find it bizarre that this extreme example of an aggressive, stalkerish, male transactivist has become your cause du jour and apparent hill to die on.

I agree that many women probably do arrive here and have an initial gasp at how blunt and to the point regular posters often are - that's female socialisation for you. After a while (and this is the liberating part) most realise that 'being nice' about awful, misogynistic men isn't compulsory and nor does the world stop turning if you don't prioritise their feelings.

I just don’t agree with the «this person is abusive so that justifies abusing him» theme. What about «they go low, we go high»?

Nobody is abusing him. He’s not here. Name calling a violent offender isn’t abuse.

Have you ever actually been abused? I have. By a violent male thug like this guy. I’ll keep calling them thugs. I don’t need to be nice to evil.

Stop tone policing, it’s not your job.

I find it bizarre that this extreme example of an aggressive, stalkerish, male transactivist has become your cause du jour and apparent hill to die on.

Isn’t it? She’s much more bothered by ‘insults’ at a violent aggressive male, than the violence Julie had to endure. It’s quite revealing isn’t it? That when a lesbian woman is abused, someone jumps in to say, ‘ hey don’t be mean to the offender! You’ll be to blame if he does it again!’

ginger, The word bastard has become enshrined in mumsnet folklore. It's sooo prevalent, LTB is now shorthand in many other places across social media.

Do you have any idea how many times the women on this board are being held to a standard way, way higher than elsewhere on this site? Why is that, do you think?

Why are other mumsnetters able to use the word bastard with impunity, even so far as to making it to shorthand, but not us?

Just to add, I behaved in similar ways as a newer arrival. Defended a TRA who had self serving, nefarious intentions with pleas of let's be kinder etc...it stings a bit to be told to stop it by more experienced posters but I fully get it now and I'm a lot more confident for it.

thug
/θʌɡ/
noun
1.
a violent person, especially a criminal.

vile
/vʌɪl/

adjective
extremely unpleasant.
"he has a vile temper"

Thug seems a pretty accurate word to me. But perhaps you don’t like dictionary definitions ginger. What other words would you like to change the dictionary meaning of? Woman? literal? violence? Female? Safe? Girl? Penis? Vagina?

Because I have no desire to use personal insults and weaken my position , and therefore my whole argument.

If the content of your argument is strong enough it is not possible to weaken it, surely?

Or are you saying that we should always police our tone and use 'sweet' language to ever have any degree of credibility?

Are you saying we should not express our rage on occasions such as at the terrorising of a woman who most here hold with extremely high regard? That we should find 'sweet' words to discuss the man who terrorised this woman? [By 'sweet' words I mean words that appease.]

It’s just male violence towards a woman presented in a different way

Male violence.

There shouldn’t have to be a debate on male violence because male violence towards a woman is not for debate

It’s wrong wrong wrong

The go high cos they go low is wrong and I won’t be thinking that in my head if a man was attacking me

This is male violence. A man attacked a woman

FFS I am no fan of Julie Bindel and I disagree with her on many issues but she does not deserve to be violently assaulted because of her beliefs

It is unbelievable that an argument is being made in support of her attacker on the basis of their mental health problems.

If the attacker is prone to violence against women because of mental health issues they should be in a secure unit until such time as they are able to control themselves.

Because I have no desire to use personal insults and weaken my position , and therefore my whole argument.

I agree that emotional, personal insulting is a bit of a waste of time. But if you have a solid argument, it cannot be weakened, even by adding insults to the mix.

However, I don't believe the women here have been particularly insulting. The behaviour displayed by this person is perfectly described by the use of words such as thug, vile, etc. They are pertinent words, germane, relevant, appropriate.

Perhaps you find the strength of feeling uncomfortable? Or, more likely, the unvarnished expression of that strength of feeling.

Poor man. I wonder how we can help him and make him feel better.confused

To be fair, inflicting physical violence on women can leave a man with hurty hands.

Oh what can be done to help those poor grazed knuckles?

knobhead
/ˈnɒb(h)ɛd/
Noun.
A man who attacks women esp. Julie Bindel

Posters on these boards are regularly taken to task for our use of language or not being nice enough.

I've been pulled up for using the term brick shithouse to describe ma'am on a thread during the Game Stop incident.

Not the nicest term I grant you, but pretty accurate to describe a huge male kicking off at a younger smaller male and intimidating all those around them because having pink trainers and hoop earrings are supposed to signify to the world that you're a she.

It astounds me that in that instance, in this one with JB and countless others the takeaway for some posters is concern for the male perpetrators and how they are discussed by women and what language is used rather than horror at their actual actions.

Did you all see that towntattle’s been suspended ?

I think that must because TRAS have requested it, as part of the damage limitation exercise.

...brings into stark relief how normalised and trivialised male violence against women is and how at the end of the day, the woman deserved it and society caused it.

Agree. It's as if we have to believe that violent men are the real victims.

ginger “they go low, we go high” doesn’t seem to work very well in a system where a meme saying “shut the fuck up, terf” featuring a character pointing a gun is all over twitter and on the other side stating that TW are not W is a hate crime requiring police intervention.

I am not looking for anyone to centre on the feelings on this person , or indeed men in general, poor or otherwise

I have to be honest here, and I don't trust your motivation: in coming onto this board in particular and insisting that people can't talk about what has just happened and call it out for what it is.
I've not ever seen you do this on any other topic or event, including in instances when a trans person or man has done something, arguably, far worse.

Why now? And what is really your concern?

Most people here are very moderate in their language and descriptions; and even if they weren't. So what? This is not a national newspaper or media outlet - it is a very specific board, on a very large forum, for gender critical people and feminists to discuss issues around women's rights & transgenderism.

I'm not sure who you're worried about offending, either ginger. I'm assuming it's not transactivists, or the perpetrator.

So perhaps it's fence sitters? Fledgeling feminists?

Well reasoned arguments and backing up one's use of language will sort that one out.

Honestly, I'm still trying to get my eyebrows to go down after ginger insisted that calling a violent male attacking a woman a vile bastard is in any way an extreme reaction.