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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

May have ranted at my work colleagues rather

72 replies

ApplePenPineapplePen · 04/06/2019 23:15

Out for drinks with (male) work colleagues and someone ask3d about sex ed at schools, LGBTQ awareness....and there is no other word for it but I ranted. I described myself as a gender critical feminist and they asked what that was and once I started I couldnt stop. Gender dysphoria women in sport, sex based rights, men in women's prisons. Quite embarrassed at my lack of self awareness that I just kspt gping. Spoke about ROGD and impact in my own family....then calmed down and found one man my age was wondering what the fuss was about, another said there's only 2 sexes end of, and my v intelligent younger colleague told me I was on the wrong side of history and sex-based rights are unnecessaey.

OP posts:
AnyOldPrion · 05/06/2019 05:58

Completely understand OP. There were months when the knowledge was making me so angry that it was near impossible not to speak if it came up.

It’s people like you who start other people thinking for themselves.

AncientLights · 05/06/2019 06:10

The offensive view here imo is that of your male colleague who thinks sex-based rights aren't necessary. HR should have a quiet word with him, if anybody, not you.

Well done, OP.

eurochick · 05/06/2019 06:18

Well your woke colleague is out of step with current equality laws in the U.K., which protect again discrimination based on sex.

I also had a recent GC tipsy rant. This was at my in-laws. I hope I opened their eyes to some of the issues.

Original poster
ApplePenPineapplePen · 05/06/2019 06:51

Yes I agree, however the person I was talking to is very unemotional and logical (which is why his stance took me by surprise) and so I was trying to demolish his arguments logically. His main point seemed to be that we are two generations away from none of this mattering and people just being people (all good imho) and the issues I was citing don't matter because they are an inevitable consequence of social change (not ok imho and if I'd been more on the ball then I'd have said the don't matter 'to him' because he is not part of the impacted group.)

OP posts:
Original poster
ApplePenPineapplePen · 05/06/2019 06:54

That was to the poster who said the issue is personal. I had missed the more recent comments. Thank you so much for the supportive comments.

OP posts:
Original poster
ApplePenPineapplePen · 05/06/2019 07:02

I am sort of hoping woke colleague wants to continue the discussion - because I like arguing my point, its in my nature and DH (thankfully) listens and agrees with me. And because he is coming at it from the angle that women don't need protection and treating them as if they do, is belittling and patronising. I think that point of view comes from someone who HAS NO IDEA about everyday sexism, sexual assault facts etc because it isn't his experience.

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Original poster
ApplePenPineapplePen · 05/06/2019 07:07

Anyway I shall tread carefully this morning. I am more senior than him at work although we share a manager (Mr 'but call me old-fashioned, there are just two sexes right?') And I have no wish for him to feel attacked. Ideas are fair game though if he wants to debate again as long as it is non-work time and place.

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Floisme · 05/06/2019 07:08

He will have no idea whatsoever. In my experience very few men do, even the decent ones.

Well done for speaking up - mighty applause from me too. I did it once and will never forget people's faces Grin I tell myself that if I just got one person thinking, it was worth it but I have to say I've kept my mouth shut ever since.

RiversDisguise · 05/06/2019 07:08

It's people like you who changed me from a woke uncritical PC as fuck 20-year-old into an arsey, ranty 30-something.

Thank you! Wine

And have some more MIGHTY applause. Grin

IAmAlwaysLikeThis · 05/06/2019 07:10

Why denegrate giving your opinion as "ranting"? Men don't dismiss their frequent tedious mansplaining monologues in this way, no need for you to either.

I couldn't care less what anyone thinks of me at work, but I don't work somewhere particularly woke.

The more people we talk to, the more minds will be changed. It's not always possible for everyone, but people have died in the pursuit of women's rights, so facing a bit of humphiness is fine with me.

Wrong side of history! What a joke!

KatvonHostileExtremist · 05/06/2019 07:12

Well done you. I think this is a great approach.

This time last year I tried to talk about the protests a pride with a gay mate, he was like "bad lesbians ".... one year later he's actually seen what's going on, and was ranting at me!!!!!! He can see the homophobia in statements like the screenshot attached.

It's absolutely fine to be bisexual, it is not fine to dismiss same sex attraction. Biological sex is real.

It has been amazing to see people start to realise the truth about the trans ideology.

May have ranted at my work colleagues rather
RiversDisguise · 05/06/2019 07:21

Tbh I don't understand the "wrong side of history" comment at all. Glib and nonsensical. What a fucking pseud.

IAmAlwaysLikeThis · 05/06/2019 07:27

rivers just a way to talk down to anyone over 30 and make them look out of touch.

Total bollocks

Sunkisses · 05/06/2019 07:35

I don't understand all the PPs saying "I would get sacked if I expressed my GC views at work". On what grounds could you possibly be sacked? I understand it could happen (see Maya Forstater), but it is not legal to sack someone because of their views. They would have to have some grounds

IAmAlwaysLikeThis · 05/06/2019 07:38

rivers just a way to talk down to anyone over 30 and make them look out of touch.

Total bollocks

Orchidoptic · 05/06/2019 07:40

My workmates (all youngish men) asked how a man can say he is a woman. I tried to whisper, but there’s really no way to whisper lady dick Blush. They looked at me like I had sprouted a second head.

Mrscaindingle · 05/06/2019 07:48

I totally empathise with you op, I too have been guilty of this, it's partly because it's so important and so many people don't know what's happening or worse, don't care. I find once I start I can't stop and because I'm so angry about it I struggle to sound calm and reasoned.
As a pp said men don't saddle themselves with the same worries as they are more used to holding the floor in discussions.

Original poster
ApplePenPineapplePen · 05/06/2019 07:51

orchidoptic Grin

OP posts:
EvaHarknessRose · 05/06/2019 07:55

Let your views as you expressed them speak, don’t apologise for them or frame them as a rant. If it comes up, maybe note ‘this is something I have thought about a lot, and view as an important issue.’.

Original poster
ApplePenPineapplePen · 05/06/2019 07:56

I think 'impassioned monologue' may be an alternative phrase to 'rant'. However I think views get more respect when the speaker pauses for breath (I didn't) and finds out what the audience think - talking with rather than at.

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SisterWendyBuckett · 05/06/2019 08:06

Well done - mighty applause from me too. You have a right to your personal opinions outside of work.

The only reason we feel we're being 'ranty' is because the threat to women and children is so great and too many people refuse to scratch beneath the surface.

If women don't talk about this how will things ever change?

DrSusan · 05/06/2019 08:10

It’s really difficult to have these conversations without ‘ranting’. There’s so much going on that is so hideous that it’s easy to sound mad when you start to describe it to people who are unaware. I had a similar conversation not long ago with old friends who I expected to agree with me. They half did, but clearly thought I was going too far. Afterwards, I was a bit embarrassed about my tone (I’d had a drink or three!) but overall, I’m glad I did it. But I am working on marshalling my arguments in a more temperate way!

DrSusan · 05/06/2019 08:11

Oh, and applause from me too!

DpWm · 05/06/2019 08:20

I don't understand all the PPs saying "I would get sacked if I expressed my GC views at work"
Because it happens. Germain Greer lost a role at Cambridge uni over it. Women are being routinely no-platformed over it, which is them losing a job.
Women don't always get the sack, but they get "edged out" over it, so it's difficult to prove.

ChattyLion · 05/06/2019 08:25

Good for you OP. Am also trying to go into it a bit socially, so far you get open agreement from people who are more practical and deal with people (nurses, teachers) then the more eager to please types get really quiet and look at you like you’re being really mean. But because they look worried I think that’s their cognitive dissonance penny starting to drop.