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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Ann Widdecombe on Marr - Gay conversion therapy is no different to changing sex

58 replies

lucasthecat · 02/06/2019 11:59

This morning on Marr - Ann Widdecombe - was being grilled on her previous support on research into gay conversion therapy - her response was interesting - She said it is now accepted that people can change sex - so it’s not that radical for science to explore changing sexual attraction (for those gay people that are unhappy). For the record I don’t think you can change sex or sexual attraction. However you can’t dispute her logic - if something’s are fluid and change - then surely everything is up for grabs - using chemical drugs and surgery - and a large dose of propaganda . Who’d of though Ann widdecombe is super woke

OP posts:
Outanabout · 02/06/2019 12:07

When are gay men going to wake up and join women in the fight against this homophobic movement? This might open a few eyes to the fact that it isn't only those unimportant lesbians who are being redefined,.

AlwaysComingHome · 02/06/2019 12:08

She’s correct. If you can change sex, changing sexual orientation should be easy. In fact, if you are a lesbian and you change sex but are still attracted to women you have been converted to heterosexuality.

It would be a great gain for GC feminists if Ann Widdecombe makes this argument as loudly and often as possible, preferably while wearing a TWAW t-shirt.

She should also dye her hair blue.

terryleather · 02/06/2019 12:08

Iirc from reading on these boards, AW along with Norman Tebbit were two of the most vociferous opponents of the GRA when it was originally proposed...happy to be corrected if I've mis-remembered.

Outanabout · 02/06/2019 12:13

For different reasons I think - IIRC Tebitt objected because he foresaw the effect it would have on women's rights.

ByGrabtharsHammarWhatASaving · 02/06/2019 12:17

You're right terry though I think one of Anne's big problems with it was that it acted as a loop hole for same sex marriage. But she spoke very strongly against it being a terrible law and her and another few MPs predicted almost exactly that our current state of affairs would be the outcome.

CaptainKirksSpookyghost · 02/06/2019 12:37

Who’d of though Ann widdecombe is super woke

She isn't, this is exactly what is happening.

donquixotedelamancha · 02/06/2019 16:29

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/a3601824-AIBU-to-think-believing-science-can-change-sexual-orientation-is-a-logical-and-reasonable-assumption?msgid=87513045#87513045

Existing thread has an interesting discussion, along with the usual admonishments that anyone discussing about this issue is a bigot.

RiddleyW · 02/06/2019 16:34

That thread was derailed by its stupid title.

donquixotedelamancha · 02/06/2019 16:38

That thread was derailed by its stupid title.

True, I don't think the OP was well explained at all.

Orchidoptic · 02/06/2019 16:43

Ooh I got lost on that thread, especially with people arguing about gender when they meant sex and talking about changing your entire physiology, as if it were possible.

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 02/06/2019 16:52

That thread was derailed by its stupid title

Yep, i misread it as the OP thought it was ILLOGICAL...so it took me a while to realise why people were upset

But if you exclude the stupid title....people STILL aren’t getting what the OP is trying to saying

FloralBunting · 02/06/2019 16:55

I'd be interested to know if Widdecombe is actually woke, having had an epiphany after Willoughby insisted that Willoughby's 'woman-ness' penetrated, or if she is being rather canny and pointing out the entirely anti-homosexual nature of transgenderism.

She wouldn't be the first traditionally-minded Catholic to notice that Transgenderism is no different to what most people understand as 'Gay conversion therapy.'

lucasthecat · 02/06/2019 18:29

Floral Bunting - I was being a bit facetious - when I suggested AW was woke. She clearly isn’t - I think she was quite smart in responding to Marr’s attempt to use her views on Gay conversion therapy - she put it in the context of the right on view you can change sex - against which changing sexual preference seems reasonable - I don’t think she for one minute believes you can Change sex but used it as a neat device . To stop Marr in his tracks which it did

OP posts:
FloralBunting · 02/06/2019 19:05

Oh, I'm sure. Frankly, I think her views on homosexuality are as much as they ever were - and tbh, her speaking of gay conversation therapy with approval in the same breath as mentioning transgenderism is exactly what is motivating a lot of those Mermaids-backed parents coaching their kids at the Tavistock.

Own your shit, Trans-Activists. Widdecombe is right on your side with this one, isn't she?

I'm reading a lot of my FB friends posting their wide eyed horror at her, and I cannot but help roll my eyes in contempt given that I know the disapproving lefties posting think that transing gay kids is tres progressive. Fucking idiots.

dwatsuts · 02/06/2019 20:34

She said it is now accepted that people can change sex - so it’s not that radical for science to explore changing sexual attraction (for those gay people that are unhappy).

Given the advances in knowledge with each century, then sure, it probably is possible. It would just be a colossal waste of time and resources. Being gay is not harmful to the person who is gay, nor anyone around them, so it makes no sense to try to change it.

dwatsuts · 02/06/2019 20:37

Actually, I read over some of the responses in this thread, and I think some people have gotten the wrong end of the stick.

I think Ann Widdecombe is saying "why can't we have gay conversion therapy if we're going to accept that people can change sex?" I don't think she is advocating rights for transgender people, rather, she's just being a dick to rationalise her earlier comments about gay conversion therapy.

FloralBunting · 02/06/2019 20:38

Yeah. Don't think anyone here would dispute that. I don't know any of the regular posters are for conversion therapy. Most of think it's abusive.

Grimbles · 02/06/2019 21:25

Why is the focus on 'converting' gays?

If it was possible to 'convert' someone's sexuality why is it never centred around converting paedophiles?

2rebecca · 02/06/2019 21:57

Agree re paedophiles. I have had a couple of paedophile patients wishing they could have their sexual preferences changed and wanting to suppress their libidos. I hope someone is doing research in to this although you'd never be allowed a control group and you couldn't trust them not to lie. Society hasn't a clue what to do with them at the moment.

Goosefoot · 02/06/2019 22:00

I've always been a little uncomfortable with some of the things people say about why conversion therapy should be banned.

It's one thing to say, well, why would someone need to be converted, that is pretty straightforward. The strongest argument to allow it would be if some adult wanted to be straight, why restrict that, if it was possible to do it. There are reasons people might still think its not a good idea to allow it, but it's not a completely bizarre point of view. But if that's the argument against it, I don't have an issue.

But the idea that it doesn't work - well, sure, it seems that what what we call conversion therapy doesn't work. But that doesn't mean it could never work, who knows maybe there could be some discovery that would allow it, or to affect foetal development. I can think of lots of good reasons we might not do those things, but I don't like tying the idea that it doesn't work to why we don't do it.

We've kind of seen how making "conversion therapy" an amporphous idea can be a problem when it comes to trans issues. But I have wondered as well about some cases that could really seem like gay conversion therapy. People here talk about the development of fetishes a lot, and I know of some young males who may or may not have been gay in the regular sense, who in my observation were exposed to an environment where certain involving sex with other men, and there seemed to be a fetish based sexuality that came out of it. I imagine, though I don't know, that its similar to what happens in cultures where pederasty is normative. But if one of these men, as an adult, were to seek therapy, I wonder if the course of it could begin to look at the attraction to other men, and if so, would that be considered conversion therapy?

I imagine that could be a sensitive topic for gay men, but I don't kow if its not talked about because it is too pc, or I am just talking about something so rare it doesn't matter, or what.

Goosefoot · 02/06/2019 22:02

Obviously I mean "not talked about because it isn't pc to do so"

LassOfFyvie · 02/06/2019 22:08

if some adult wanted to be straight, why restrict that, if it was possible to do it. There are reasons people might still think its not a good idea to allow it, but it's not a completely bizarre point of view

There was a Rod Liddle video interview in the Sunday Times a while back with a homosexual man saying exactly that. He did not want to be homosexual and felt he should be able to access help about that.

Outanabout · 02/06/2019 22:27

Who was that gay jazz player, he was brought up to believe he was gay, it came as a shock to him as an adult when he realised that he wasn't.

FloralBunting · 02/06/2019 22:41

There's a whole lot of assumptions behind the idea that someone might want to change their orientation. As someone who went through it, I admit I do find it hard to think of a neutral reason.

HumansCannotEverChangeSex · 03/06/2019 10:58

Meh, she has a point. If we can apparently change our sex, then why not our sexual preferences. We already trans away the gay so why not find a way to stop pedophiles being attracted to children.